Newbie Having Troubles with Temp Control for CBD vaping

[sproyd]

Background:

I recently started vaping CBD (100% VG) for a chronic medical condition only, noting I only very occasionally smoke cigarettes so won't be using my vape for nicotine. I originally started taking CBD orally but vaping CBD is meant to have better bio-availability (so better bang for buck and CBD is £££) and quicker into the bloodstream so that's why I'm getting into it.

My Situation:

• My first vape device for CBD was an Aspire Pockex, recommended and sold to me by House of Vapes in Portobello Road but with no wattage or temp control. Unfortunately, while I found the AIO and compact size convenient, I felt like I wasn't getting ideal delivery of CBD, and noticed very little medical effect.
• Checking the CBD manufacturer's website, it recommends vaping sub-ohm at 24W or 280F/140C
  
• Other websites suggest a much higher 210C is better for CBD vaping, as 140C is actually below CBD's boiling point so vaping at that temp you would only get terpenes (complimentary chemicals, but not the main medically beneficial compound of CBD).
  
• After some beginner's research I realised I needed a Temp Control box mod, and visited Noble Vaping in Shoreditch. I told them what it was for and that I wanted something compact with TC for vaping CBD, and they sold me an Artery Nugget v2 TC box mod and a Herakles v2 Tank to go with it. This is a compact, max 50W device with various modes incl TC (plus TCR) and VW.
  
• The default installed 0.4ohm coil in the Herakles is Kanthal which I realised doesn't support TC, so I switched that out for the spare 0.2ohm 316L Stainless Steel coil and put my Nugget in TC Stainless Steel mode.

Problems:

• The Nugget detects the 316L coil (at around 0.22ohm), and at 210C set on the TC it applies about 40W of power with the vape button depressed. However, the display shows the coil doesn't get up to this temp, and instead only goes to about 150C after quite a few seconds of holding down. The tank however gets very hot. Even at a lower 140C TC setting, it applies high 30Ws and doesn't get to the stated temp. This is very frustrating as I naively expected it would work fine out of the box and reach the desired temp quickly and hold stable.
  
• The Herakles V2 also seems to be leaky but this appears to be a common complaint - maybe I need to be more diligent with the juice flow and air flow adjustment when filling/using... but open to any tips.

Questions:

• Have I just got a bad mod/tank combo for vaping sub-ohm at 210C? Is 50W too underpowered for a 0.2ohm 316L Stainless Steel coil looking to achieve those temps? Does it sound like a problem with the TC settings? There appears to be only 3 coils available for the Herakles, the other is a Ni200 0.2ohm so not sure whether that would be better (only the other 2 come with the tank so I haven't been able to test).
• I really love this tiny box mod, so any suggestions for better tank/coil combos to achieve the temps I'm looking for under 50W would be appreciated?
• Any experienced CBD vapers out there with other pro tips?

Looking forward to any help you can give, I just want to get my CBD vape situation sorted!

 

[afewtogo]

HI there,

Not sure how much I can help with your specific situation, but I'm interested to know what CDB juice you're using that's 100% VG?

When I vape CBD I use the Harmony range of eJuices, and they're more PG than VG. I have good results with those using iSticks with CS-Air tanks and don't need to go any higher than about 12W.

The reason you're being told to subohm the juice you have is due to the VG content. At 100% VG, there's a good chance you're gunking up your coils.

My daily driver is an Innokin Kroma with a slipstream tank - for that juice with my personal setup, I'd use a 0.5ohm SS coil in temp control mode at about 210, and I think it would be OK, but I'd be tempted to mix in some PG or a little thinner liquid.

Main question though, what brand of juice are you using? There's a lot of CBD juice out there that's total garbage, with a lot of people cashing in on its popularity.

 

[afewtogo]

PS. Tank / coil suggestion: I love the Slipstream tanks with SS coils. They're top fill and just work for me, none of the messing around I've endured with countless other tanks.

PPS. Upon re-reading your post, the Slipstream looks rather like the tank you already have!

 

[Tubbyengineer]

It sounds like the mod isn't reading the coil resistance properly - It need to do this to control the temp. Allow the tank to cool to room temperature and disconnect it from the mod, set the mod to the correct TC mode, temperature and power setting then press the fire button - you should get a "Check Atomiser" message, now screw on the cold atomiser and press fire again - this should read the cold resistance of the atomiser and will theoretically give you the right temperature. If you still get a very hot vape then it's likely the mod just isn't much good at TC, however it isn't really neccesary to run it in TC you can run it in simple wattage mode - just start low and work your way up to what feels right for you...

 

[sproyd]

Firstly, thanks for your reply

I'm interested to know what CDB juice you're using that's 100% VG?

Palmetto Harmony Aura is the CBD liquid I have. Both the manufacturer and bottle itself say 100% VG.

I'd use a 0.5ohm SS coil in temp control mode at about 210

Thanks, this is a good tip. As it happens I just ordered a Vaporesso Veco Tank for this reason - it comes with 2 sub-ohm coils both rated inside 50W max (0.4 ohm 40 - 50W, 0.5 ohm 25 - 35W SS316 Coil) so I'm hoping I can get a good TC going. I'll update the thread once it arrives if it works well.

Question for you - have you played with different temps for CBD, and how quick does your mod get up to temp in TC mode after pressing the TC button.

PS. Tank / coil suggestion: I love the Slipstream tanks with SS coils. They're top fill and just work for me, none of the messing around I've endured with countless other tanks.

PPS. Upon re-reading your post, the Slipstream looks rather like the tank you already have!

Thanks for these tank suggestions. I have also been recommended the Innokin ISUB tanks. As above, I ended up going for the Vaporesso Veco Tank so we will see how we go.

I have come to the conclusion that my current tank, the Sense Herakles V2, I think just requires too much power for my 50W mini mod to function (coils are rated 0.4 ohm 35-100W Kanthal, and 0.2 ohm 35-80W 316L). I may keep the tank and buy a more powerful mod in future as I've heard good reviews about the tank if you can get the leak gods on your side.

 

[sproyd]

It sounds like the mod isn't reading the coil resistance properly - It need to do this to control the temp. Allow the tank to cool to room temperature and disconnect it from the mod, set the mod to the correct TC mode, temperature and power setting then press the fire button - you should get a "Check Atomiser" message, now screw on the cold atomiser and press fire again - this should read the cold resistance of the atomiser and will theoretically give you the right temperature. If you still get a very hot vape then it's likely the mod just isn't much good at TC, however it isn't really neccesary to run it in TC you can run it in simple wattage mode - just start low and work your way up to what feels right for you...

Thanks for your reply. I've tried 2 different coils and it appears to be reading the resistance correctly on the display when first connecting the coil.

My conclusion is that in theory I don't have enough Wattage in my 50W mod to push 200+C in a 0.2ohm SS316L Herakles coil as its rated 35-80W. Fair enough, the retailer shouldn't have sold me these together.

On your second point, my technical understanding is that CBD needs to be vaped at a certain temp as below certain temps you are not vaporizing the main medically beneficial compounds, you're literally just vaping away your money. Above a certain temperature as well you can release harmful compounds. Hence, TC is strongly recommended by manufacturers for vaping CBD.

You seem like you're experienced, so I'd be interested to hear your views why you may think otherwise?

 

[jay2]

I'm gonna watch this thread, cos I was thinking of vaping CBD myself. Clearly it's not so straightforeward as I imagined

I vape 100VG myself (due to pG sensitivity) MTL , at quite modest wattages . It wicks just fine if you mix in 10% distilled water . I'd rather not sub-ohm. Tried it, disliked it. Looks like I've gotta change my ways substantially if I really want to vape CBD, and get some actual benefit from it?

 

[Tubbyengineer]

Thanks for your reply. I've tried 2 different coils and it appears to be reading the resistance correctly on the display when first connecting the coil.

My conclusion is that in theory I don't have enough Wattage in my 50W mod to push 200+C in a 0.2ohm SS316L Herakles coil as its rated 35-80W. Fair enough, the retailer shouldn't have sold me these together.

On your second point, my technical understanding is that CBD needs to be vaped at a certain temp as below certain temps you are not vaporizing the main medically beneficial compounds, you're literally just vaping away your money. Above a certain temperature as well you can release harmful compounds. Hence, TC is strongly recommended by manufacturers for vaping CBD.

You seem like you're experienced, so I'd be interested to hear your views why you may think otherwise?

You'd have to be cooking the hell out of the juice to get any really dangerous chemicals from it - You'd basically be getting a dry hit. Careful use of the wattage mode will allow a satisfying vape experience and will not overheat your juice. If you want really reliable TC then you want a DNA based device and to be honest probably a more suitable tank. The Herakles is OK but isn't really the kind of thing I'd suggest for TC. The problem is that if you want to buy stock coils you're kind of stuck with whatever the market is pushing. A rebuildable tank would give you more flexibility but may introduce an unwanted level of complexity. A Basic Kanger Subtank with SS coils should do the trick and should still be fairly available

 

[sproyd]

“In general, I would say 210°C is the best balance between efficient evaporation of terpenes and cannabinoids and smoothness of the vapor,” says Dr. Arno Hazekamp, who studies medical cannabis as the head of research at Bedrocan BV in the Netherlands.

Users should take caution not to vaporize at or above 235°C (455°F) since the vapor will become harsh and could start to burn. “When that happens, you are creating the same toxic compounds as during smoking,” explains Dr. Hazekamp.

 

[jay2]

But I just followed your link, sproyd, and it says:
"Meant to be used in a sub ohm tank at 24 watts (280 degrees) for maximum absorption"
heck, so much contradictory information

[EDIT: PS just re-checked your OP and you already told us that . what a bllody pointless post this is, eh?]