More bad publicity....

[zouzounaki]

Youre the one asking the questions though no?

Yes, I did ask a question but the reason for asking it was to clarify what it is you are saying. The internet wouldn’t be any use for that.

You’ve said that there are millions of cases of diseases classed as popcorn lung caused by smoking. I don’t think I’ll find anything on the internet that would confirm that.

I’m not sure what the point of this is.

 

[Mr Ripple]

You’ve said that there are millions of cases of diseases classed as popcorn lung caused by smoking. I don’t think I’ll find anything on the internet that would confirm that.

I’m not sure what the point of this is.

Thats not what i said at all.

There are millions of if not billions of cases of diseases classed as bronchiolitis obliterans which are caused by smoking.

 

[zouzounaki]

Can you explain the dofference between those two statements?

 

[Mr Ripple]

Can you explain the dofference between those two statements?

I already have but you dont understand and tbh im all out of ideas or other ways to explain it.

 

[zouzounaki]

You’ve not really explained anything, though. You’ve said there are millions or billions of cases of BO caused by smoking. Yet medical experts say it’s a rare disease. The uk government also recently said this in a blog, which also stated that smoking is not a major risk factor for the disease.

So that’s why I’m a bit baffled by what you are saying. You seem to think there are millions or billions of confirmed cases of wrong diagnosis of this condition in smokers. Even if these wrong diagnoses were real, it would be impossible to prove.

You also say that BO is a class of diseases, and imply that BO and popcorn lung aren’t the same, but without any explanation. It’s not a class of diseases, it’s a specific condition with known and potentially other unknown causes.

If you want to just explain your view about it in simple non ambiguous terms, that would be nice. Otherwise I’ll probably leave it here as the discussion seems a bit pointless. Cheers.

 

[Mr Ripple]

You’ve not really explained anything, though. You’ve said there are millions or billions of cases of BO caused by smoking. Yet medical experts say it’s a rare disease. The uk government also recently said this in a blog, which also stated that smoking is not a major risk factor for the disease.

So that’s why I’m a bit baffled by what you are saying. You seem to think there are millions or billions of confirmed cases of wrong diagnosis of this condition in smokers. Even if these wrong diagnoses were real, it would be impossible to prove.

You also say that BO is a class of diseases, and imply that BO and popcorn lung aren’t the same, but without any explanation. It’s not a class of diseases, it’s a specific condition with known and potentially other unknown causes.

If you want to just explain your view about it in simple non ambiguous terms, that would be nice. Otherwise I’ll probably leave it here as the discussion seems a bit pointless. Cheers.

Im going to quote your post below and add sone comments in italic to make it easier.

You’ve not really explained anything, though. You’ve said there are millions or billions of cases of BO caused by smoking. Yet medical experts say it’s a rare disease. Medical experts will say popcorn lung is a rear disease.

"Bronchiolitis Obliterans" is a term used to describe a multitude of restricted airway conditions of which there are several including copd, asthma, pneumonia, bronchitis etc..... There are a multitude of reasons why these conditions maybe contracted such as the inhalation of toxic chemicals produced by cigarettes, the chemical industry, product manufacturing, etc..... More recently it was discovered that people who worked in a popcorn factory were becoming ill with a disease which was restricting the airways in the same ways as one of the above conditions do. It was discovered that Diacetyl was the cause which is the part of the flavouring added to give the popcorn its creamy buttery taste. Diacetyl inhalation in high enough doses causes scaring to the lining of the lungs and airways which causes air pockets to form restricting oxygen from being absorbed.
The uk government also recently said this in a blog, which also stated that smoking is not a major risk factor for the disease. Not when you consider there more significant risks of contracting other forms of Bronchiolitis Obliterans or heart diseases that smoking causes.
So that’s why I’m a bit baffled by what you are saying. You seem to think there are millions or billions of confirmed cases of wrong diagnosis
Im not sure i have said "wrong diagnosis" and if i did its a slip but would have said un diagnosed cases in smokers. The reason for this is simply that the symptoms of PCL are so similar or manifest in the same way as other forms of Bronchiolitis Obliterans that no more scrutiny was thought needed. The symptoms are the same so the treatment or lack of worthwhile treatment remains the same.
of this condition in smokers. Even if these wrong diagnoses were real, it would be impossible to prove. I agree with this completely apart from the word "wrong" of course.

You also say that BO is a class of diseases, and imply that BO and popcorn lung aren’t the same, but without any explanation. It’s not a class of diseases, it’s a specific condition with known and potentially other unknown causes.

Bronchiolitis Obliterans is the umbrella in which most of the restricted pathway conditions falls under.

If you want to just explain your view about it in simple non ambiguous terms, that would be nice. Otherwise I’ll probably leave it here as the discussion seems a bit pointless. Cheers.

 

[zouzounaki]

Ok, that’s a bit clearer and I now understand what you are saying, thanks. Where do you get this information? I’m not a medical professional or any kind of expert, all i know about this is some stuff I’ve read over the last year and a bit since I started inhaling eliquid. But most of what you posted in your reply there conflicts with pretty much everything I’ve read about it. It’s of interest to me, because it’s ultimately a matter of making an informed decision about our habits and the impact they might have on our health. If you could provide something to back up the following points it would be very useful.

* BO as a term used to describe a class of illnesses.
I can’t find anything that says this. All of the studies, articles and info I’ve read describe BO as a distinct disease with different characteristics from other restricted airway conditions such as copd. It’s described as a rare condition with relatively quick onset of symptoms that affects people who have had transplants and people who have inhaled toxic fumes.

* The government blog post: this post clearly states that BO (not “one type of BO”) is a rare disease that has been contracted by people working in industrial conditions exposing them to diacetyl and that smoking is not a risk factor. Here is a quote from it:

some flavourings used in e-liquids to provide a buttery flavour contain the chemical diacetyl, which at very high levels of exposure has been associated with the serious lung disease bronchiolitis obliterans... It had been detected in some e-liquid flavourings in the past, but at levels hundreds of times lower than in cigarette smoke. Even at these levels, smoking is not a major risk factor for this rare disease.

I think it's important to clarify this as what you are saying goes against everything I’ve seen written about this, and if you’re right it would imply that smoking and potentially vaping (with diacetyl containing liquids) actually are risk factors for developing BO/popcorn lung.

This is not to say that potentially smokers may have had BO and that it’s been diagnosed as something else. It would seem unlikely to me from what I’ve read, but not impossible. And we will never know, at least in terms of the majority of these people, who will have died.

And again i’m not an expert, just an interested layperson who vapes.

 

[Mr Ripple]

I suppose its pretty difficult to put all the pieces together but this may help.

https://rarediseases.info.nih.gov/diseases/9551/bronchiolitis-obliterans

I think there are too many sources that brand PCL as simply OB but there is a lot more to it than that.

 

[zouzounaki]

I suppose its pretty difficult to put all the pieces together but this may help.

https://rarediseases.info.nih.gov/diseases/9551/bronchiolitis-obliterans

I think there are too many sources that brand PCL as simply OB but there is a lot more to it than that.

That page agrees with me though. Rare diseases info. No mention of smoking being a risk factor. Caused by toxic fumes, transplants, rheumatism. It confirms symptoms start within weeks or months. No mention of it being diagnosed in the millions or billions, or of it being a class of diseases. It’s a specific disease. No mention of misdiagnosis as other diseases that I can see.

 

[Mr Ripple]

That page agrees with me though. Rare diseases info. No mention of smoking being a risk factor. Caused by toxic fumes, transplants, rheumatism. It confirms symptoms start within weeks or months. No mention of it being diagnosed in the millions or billions, or of it being a class of diseases. It’s a specific disease. No mention of misdiagnosis as other diseases that I can see.

Suppose its like saying you can only contract Emphysema if youve worked in a coal mine.

Quoted from the link.

Bronchiolitis obliterans is an inflammatory condition that affects the lung's tiniest airways, the bronchioles. In affected people, the bronchioles may become damaged and inflamed leading to extensive scarring that blocks the airways. Signs and symptoms of the condition include a dry cough; shortness of breath; and/or fatigue and wheezing in the absence of a cold or asthma.[1][2][3] Many different chemicals (such as nitrogen oxides, ammonia, welding fumes or food flavoring fumes) and respiratory infections can cause lung injury that leads to bronchiolitis obliterans. It can also be associated with rheumatoid arthritis and graft-versus-host disease following a lung or hematopoietic cell transplantation.[3] While there is no way to reverse the disease, treatments are available that may stabilize or slow the progression.