MHRA regulation of electronic cigarettes announced

[steffijade]

Put in the simplest terminology....

 

[ZT]

I tell you what absolutely occurs to me at the minute ....

We do not need to be arguing amongst ourselves at this time.

surely we need to be all pulling together ... this sort of fracturing is a bloody godsend to those that would take it all away.

 

[Szaxe]

We dont want to present them with anything .. other than a big "Fuck you .. its nothing to do with you"

The wisest post of the thread and sums up my feelings .... Well said ZT

 

[steffijade]

I tell you what absolutely occurs to me at the minute ....

We do not need to be arguing amongst ourselves at this time.

surely we need to be all pulling together ... this sort of fracturing is a bloody godsend to those that would take it all away.

They're taking 2 things away from me luv... jack & shit.

I'm busy trying to find a convict shirt on ebay for all the future illegal activities I could be forced into.

 

[Numpty]

I think the problem you are having with all this Numpty is this

We dont want to present them with anything .. other than a big "Fuck you .. its nothing to do with you"

what you seem to be failing to grasp is that NONE of us .. not a ONE thinks that the MHRA has any reason whatsoever to be dealing with this at all .. this is recreational NOT a medicinal product. Its not that we are trying to convince the MHRA that its safe .. its that we dont believe they should have anything to do with it at all ... in the slightest, ZIP, SQUAT

its nothing to do with them, am i making this point clear? they have jumped in coz they have the power to put this product in the hands of tobacco and pharma, we want to hold our hands up and say "hey guys .. if there is gonna be ANY kind of regulation .. it should be standard hygeine rules any restaurant has ... coz this is a recreational consumable NOT a medical product. so fuck off and leave us alone mr MHRA man .. its fuck all to do with you"

do you understand that yet?

And if presented with a reasonable and valid argument that food regs or some other more fitting course is valid then they just might be forced to admit it is outside their remit, or be forced to take tobacco based products into the same regulations something that is just as insane. Neither have anything to do with a medical device, I thought that was already universally accepted.

I don't think saying 'we don't fucking want it' is going to win the day here, show why they are not the right people and offer them something more fitting, they are not just fucking off and giving up is not going to happen.
Propose something better, prove it's more fitting, more legal and at some point it will stand that medicine is not the answer.
Did you think the idea was to propose food regs governed by the MHRA ?

 

[Merino-Teflon]

Wow, I am amazed how we have got from additional regulation to drink driving!! So, I will make this my last post on the matter.

Do you really think drink driving has decreased due to testing?? It was illegal in the 70s but happened a damn site more than it happened today, because it was socially acceptable. The reduction is due to it not being morally acceptable now, and that is because of pressure from other UK citizens, not the government or government regulatory bodies. Oh wait, its called self regulation.

I highly dispute this opinion, I have seen no great leap in the moral behaviour of humans, but I have seen in different countries how the severity and strictness of the enforcement of laws in the case of drink driving, such as revoking of driving licences and and actual prison sentences have effected mortality rates.
Now, morality does come into play, as does the media, media focused morality , don't underestimate it, the media likes causes.
It can latch on to small concerns amonst sections of the community hither and thither and create a greater social cohesion of righteous feeling than can make politicians notice on a superficial yet substantial level, hooray for elections, bi-elections, bi-curious elections and what have you.
This can have good results, but also bad, as a part of the media's arsenal is fear, which the powers that be do not mind, as fear is a great form of social control, it is part of why I think religion has been such a long-running horse in many a race, it is why our privacy is invaded at every turn from CCTV on the streets, to Google at your fingertips.
Fear is related to distrust, self-regulation is a term that invokes distrust, I know I am not inspired by it, but on the other hand, I am not adverse to risk, experimentation, or moreso in the past, and for want of a better term in the present, self-medication
But I am quite a vaper, a serial vapist, and I have the cunning and wherewithal to get away with doing more than some others would should I desire to if things change, actually, it is probably because I am more unshowoffingly stubborn than anything else, but anyway, enough tooting my own horn.
I don't care to be a member of any club really, and I do not see a problem with a negotiation on regulations, part of that is discussing all the things that some of the people do not want to discuss, to listen to the negative as well as the positive, what peoples concerns are, without mockery or sneers, we are not the MRHA after all.
What we are trying to justify to the public at large is the legitimate use of products that are crutches, we are asking them to trust that our collective weakness will not make them weak.
We do not do that by throwing all out toys out of the pram, we do it by looking like a better proposition than a controlling, big officialdom, big pharma, and big tobacco forming an axis of big bullying evil wanting to quash the rights of folks indulging in an innocent form of stress relief that is more beneficial than not.
To be fair, also, I personally want behemoths to have regulations imposed from beyond the body itself, and if we the vapers are to come out of this on top, the ecig industry is already in the process of developing its own behemoths.
I think if we stand like oaks, instead of developing a bit of flexibility and compromise (without selling out/laying down/etc), we stand a rats chance in a cat colony.

Why am I talking about drink driving, what the hell, what year is this?

 

[steffijade]

And if presented with a reasonable and valid argument that food regs or some other more fitting course is valid then they just might be forced to admit it is outside their remit, or be forced to take tobacco based products into the same regulations something that is just as insane. Neither have anything to do with a medical device, I thought that was already universally accepted.

I don't think saying 'we don't fucking want it' is going to win the day here, show why they are not the right people and offer them something more fitting, they are not just fucking off and giving up is not going to happen.
Propose something better, prove it's more fitting, more legal and at some point it will stand that medicine is not the answer.
Did you think the idea was to propose food regs governed by the MHRA ?

 

[Numpty]

The wisest post of the thread and sums up my feelings .... Well said ZT

agreed what a shame it will take more, I feel the same but we need to offer an alternative not a fuck you as it tends not to have much influence in legal or parliamentary decisions.

 

[VaperCaper]

CHIP regulations - which put strict regulations on labeling and packaging of dangerous chemicals (nicotine and nicotine containing solutions)
Plugs and Sockets regulations - regs you have to follow if you sell anything with a plug on it (battery chargers, fwiw most chargers bundled with kits are fit only for the bin, and any plug attached to a device that isn't a 3pin UK plug that meets BS is illegal)
Weights and measures - which mean all the bottles of e-liquid you buy are overfilled
Distance selling regulations - govern rights of a customer to return anything within 7 days provided you supply suitable hard copy info at point of sale
Data Protection regulations - registration withthe ICO and regs to keep customers personal info secure
import regulations - regulations that cover importing things from outside the EU and tax and import duty you must pay as well as needing to register for an EORI
WEEE regulations - regualtions about the safe disposal of electronic equipment and batteries

Products sold in the UK must be fit for purpose there is a whole raft of consumer protection laws - Sale of Goods Act 1979 Electronic Commerce regulations 2002 and more than mean that what the vendor says is in the e-liquid must be in the e-liquid. There is also a bunch of paperwork you need to do to ensure that stuff you sell meets CE standards and a certificate for every product that you sell that someone in your company has signed off on to say that it meets the required standards.

All of the above (more or less) are enforced by trading standards. Who are mostly swamped and deal quickly with the easy stuff. No CHIP labels, not enough liquid in the bottles, no DOCs for CE marks, dodgy plugs or god awful 'travel adaptors' with illegal EU or US plugs will get you closed down on the spot. Testing that your liquid doesn't have Diacetyl, diethylene glycol or other nasties in it doesn't tend to happen. There are a lot of vendors who get their products tested voluntarily.

Over and over again we hear in the news that these devices are not regulated. They are actually pretty well regulated. It would be better if there was more liquid testing, and if Trading Standards had a lot more help in enforcing the existing regulations much better.

This is all off the top of my head there are probably some regulations I've missed.

 

[ZT]

And if presented with a reasonable and valid argument that food regs or some other more fitting course is valid then they just might be forced to admit it is outside their remit, or be forced to take tobacco based products into the same regulations something that is just as insane. Neither have anything to do with a medical device, I thought that was already universally accepted.

I don't think saying 'we don't fucking want it' is going to win the day here, show why they are not the right people and offer them something more fitting, they are not just fucking off and giving up is not going to happen.
Propose something better, prove it's more fitting, more legal and at some point it will stand that medicine is not the answer.
Did you think the idea was to propose food regs governed by the MHRA ?

No I think the idea is to fight against having vaping classified as a medicinal product

and I think you do too ...

So ill state again this arguing amongst ourselves is damaging to our cause I get that you believe in your mind you believe you are just trying to spark debate in a "liberal"thinking kind of way to get people to think about what we want instead ... and if we were dealing with a "liberal" case here, against reasonable people who were just trying to understand this technology .. and put it in the best place and classify and make it safe ... what i think you are attempting would be a good thing.

However .. that isnt the case, we are dealing with an organisation which is dealing with the profit margins of people who have made millions from killing people and people who have made millions from selling medicines to the people they are killing ... this is not liberal ... its corrupt, no sensible conversation and reasonable talking is going to change the course of what these people have planned.

The time for reasonable debate is passed sadly, and the time for protest and action is upon us. its that simple.

This "in-fighting" we are experiencing in this thread is just what these people need to split and divide the vaping community something that they are going to attempt to do anyway.

I'm going to urge this all to stop, please - there .. Ive asked nicely.