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Discussion in 'Rebuildable Mods and Devices' started by JoeMac, Feb 6, 2019.
its how I roll
It's the cotton. We've had many debates on here about the worth of paying £5 for a small bag of premium cotton when you could buy enough Muji to stuff a pillow, but you need a decent cotton to vape at those wattages.
The best I've used are Angorabbit and Jellyfish, both from Chinese sites. In the UK, Kendo Gold, Shake n Vape and Dat White Stuff are excellent, while there's been a lot of talk of Cotton Gods recently.
Yeah she told me she came home early and cought you hanging out the back of my dog!
Are serious answers valid in this thread? I am not aware of any single coil RTA that can really take a coil that requires more than 40W - I build my Taifun GT4 with a 5-6 wrap fused clapton and coming to 0.25 Ohm, and run it at 40W with great results. If try to you stuff 10 wraps of some crazy alien wire I'd just say you're building it wrongly. Dual coil tanks are no different, double the coil=double the power, look at it that way and you should be just fine if you're keeping to what the device can do. If I took my build and tried to run 60W on it yes I'd get a dry hit after two puffs.
Please can you advise on why my answer was not serious?
Single coil is not the single defining reason you can't run higher watts. Some single single coil RTA's have small chambers, short chimneys & restrictive airflow. Others are large chamber, big/wide chimney & big airflow. There is no right or wrong, just what suits the attie your using & your preferences.
@Ment Angorabbit cotton
11 August 2017 ·
I have some concerns about Angorabbit cotton, a lot of them.
But it might not be what you're thinking, i.e., are they using chemicals to achieve the improved burn resistance they claim? I feel we won't be able to say much about that until this cotton is analyzed by a trusted lab.
My concerns are about the regulatory compliance they claim on the packaging.
Why is that important? If those claims aren't true then what else might not be true? How much else of what they say can we trust if they won't even comply with the standards and regulations for such a product or they make exaggerated claims?
Over several days I tried contacting the makers of, and reps for, Angorabbit cotton via pm and email. All ignored. I then replied publicly to one of the numerous posts Tina Wang has made seeking distributors and vendors for Angorabbit cotton. She responded but after a few replies she deleted our conversation and said it should be private.
Here's our public conversation before she deleted it:
Angorabbit cotton claims ISO, FDA, FCC, CE, and RoHS regulatory compliance by putting those marks on the package. Photos of the packaging: https://imgur.com/a/DpXdP
Tina Wang, of Lion Eco-Technology Co., Ltd. ("Lion"), the maker of Angorabbit cotton, told me that the FDA mark was put there because they also sell medical cotton that is registered/approved by the FDA.
A different reason was told to Phil Busardo though http://www.tasteyourjuice.com/wordpress/archives/15909
Lion said to Phil..."The FDA logo is just a certification by USA government, nothing special, we just want vapers to know we are certified, not just a unauthentic brand comes out from some unauthentic somewhere."
Angorabbit cotton does not comply with anything associated the FDA unless they filed paperwork for this particular product. They cannot use any FDA registration/review/approval for another product for this product. In a message to me Lion claimed they have this FDA paperwork but refused to send it to me citing trade secrecy concerns.
Regarding the other marks on Angorabbit packaging...
Lion told me that they put the FCC mark on the package because they previously sold electronic cigarettes. Umm...huh? That's preposterous. The FCC's regulations/standards are for electronic devices and I feel that cotton doesn't quite meet that requirement. This mark is useless.
The ISO mark (International Organization for Standardization) can refer to any of over 20,000 different standards. Some are cotton-related, like cotton bale density, but most would mean nothing to us and the way we would use this cotton. Which standards do they claim compliance with? Lion refused to tell me.
The CE mark claims compliance with the standards and regulations for selling this cotton in the EU. Lion is allowed to write the compliance document themselves, i.e., they can self-certify. This is not a secret document and is made readily available by companies to show that their products are ready for sale in the EU. Lion refused to send it to me.
The RoHS mark claims that this cotton complies with the Reduction of Hazardous Substances directive to reduce the use of certain dangerous substances in products. Lion refused to send me this short document. Why would saying this cotton doesn't have any of these dangerous substances need to stay a secret? Any company I have ever requested this document from has gladly provided it. Could it be because this also only applies to electronics?
This all bothers me....a lot.
If this is a genuine step up in cotton for vaping then why the fake compliance marks? Why the secrecy? Why not just be honest on the package, market the product well (addressing all our health concerns), and let it sell itself? We can genuinely use a burn-resistant cotton.
I don't know if this Angorabbit cotton is safe to use or not. But I guess that's no different from any cotton we use. I do know that Lion claims they comply with regulations and standards that can't possibly apply to this cotton, or to cotton at all.
Lion, you said I could get a lab to test your cotton and that you are confident that the results would show your cotton is safe. I'm not the one trying to market it to this community though.
I ask you to test your own cotton. To use a well known US or EU testing company and to post the results for our community to see. This is something I am stunned you haven't already done considering your claims and our community's understandable concerns.
This still wouldn't address the problems with your packaging but it would go a long way towards allaying any worries we had regarding the safety of your cotton.
Current and future vendors and distributors for this cotton...
Lion said they would share the compliance/regulatory documentation with customers. I would ask that you request the documentation for their claimed FDA, CE, and ISO regulatory compliance. Any FCC or RoHS documentation will be useless, not even applying to this product. There's no need to ask for it.
I don't ask for me, they don't want me to see it claiming trade secrecy. I ask you to do this to ensure that this documentation exists and that Lion complies with the regulations and standards they claim and that do really apply to this cotton.
If Lion won't send the documentation then what do we believe or not believe?
Can we be sure it is safe to use?
Just frustrated and sharing some thoughts.
Comment and let me know yours.
[EDIT] I have added a followup post:
16 August 2017 ·
Angorabbit cotton followup...what’s in the bag???
This is follow-up to my previous post about this cotton
ill keep this as short as I can but there is a lot to cover.
1) Tony Wang, a sales manager, and I have had a days-long email conversation. He said the regulatory compliance certificates had trade secrets and he couldn't show them to me unless I kept them confidential. If I didn't he said they would sue me. I asked for an NDA. He has not replied in days, even after several additional emails to him regarding this and other things described below. These documents are not secret. They are meant to be given to customs inspectors, prospective customers, etc., as proof of claimed compliance and testing.
2) Another version of Angorabbit cotton being sold at 3fvape, Fasttech, DHGate, etc., is using the Bugs Bunny character on the front and says “Made in USA” on the back. That’s IP theft and an interesting country-of-manufacture claim. No, there is no city in China named “USA”. Photos here: https://imgur.com/a/Eyqql
3) The photos that Angorabbit, Tina Yang, and Tony Wang have posted on Facebook and Instagram, and said were the fields where their Angorabbit cotton is grown, appear as generic pictures on several China news sites in articles about the cotton harvest and market in 2016 and later. Photos here: https://imgur.com/a/ifT8E
4) The Angorabbit package claims FCC and RoHS regulatory compliance. That’s preposterous as these only apply to electronics. Lion Eco-Technology Co., Ltd (“Lion”) has no idea what these compliance marks are for, not a good sign. Photos here:https://imgur.com/a/DpXdP
5) The Angorabbit package claims CE and FDA regulations/standards compliance. You can self-certify for CE compliance, no secrets are in that document. The FDA claim was made, Lion says, because they sell medical cotton too so the FDA “approval” is also for Angorabbit cotton. Umm...no. Show us the documents or tell us the FDA file number so we can check the public database. Lion won’t tell anyone.
6) The Angorabbit package claims compliance with ISO standards. There are over 20,000 of them and very few deal with cotton. Those that do address things like cotton bale density and color fastness along with other stuff. Claiming compliance is useless unless we know which standards. Lion won’t tell anyone.
So what’s actually in the Angorabbit bag? I don’t know.
Does Lion have all those technicians and fields of cotton? Did they take seven months to develop this cotton? I don’t know.
But I do know there are a lot of things here that I don’t like. I would like to see test results for pesticides, heavy metals and bacteria (done for medical cotton) for Angorabbit cotton done by an EU or US lab. Actually, I’d love to see this for all the cotton we use.
I don’t care what batteries, mods, wire, or cotton each of us uses, we’re all adults here. But I do want us to have all the information we need to make an informed decision. I’m hoping Lion provides us with that information.
Thanks all for your reply's. TBH it's more out of curiosity that I ask. The main RTA's I use are 2 Juggerknot Mini's one running a mini Chris Grimes Alien that reads bang on 3 ohms. The other is a staggered clapton from Chris Grimes that's 3.2 ohms. I vape these between 34 to 38 watts. At the moment I'm using Fuzz cotton. If I try to run either of these any higher I find the cotton can't wick fast enough. I've tried various ways of wicking them but without much luck. Both tanks are full right now so I can't post pictures of the builds but think they are wicked correctly.
Yeah as the guy's say, rta's have moved on a tad.
I'm not a high wattage vaper and mainly mtl but needed a new rta for testing higher vg liquids so I picked up a dead rabbit after Mr teatime recommended one and after getting used to single coil squonk rda's the single coil of the rabbit appealed over the excellent Griffin 24 I've been using for testing for a few years.
I've used some uk flatwire flat clapton wire to make a 0.2 ohm coil (nothing flash) and it really only comes alive above 60w and I've run it up at 80w plus without wicking issues. I've been using plain old cotton bacon without issue.
Vape at between 60-70 watts with a zeus x. You need a good wick (not to much cotton ) get it right and you shouldn't have problems mate. Used to get dry hits from an old tank but it was because I was ramming the cotton in it.