John's MTL and TC Thread
- Thread starter Rob
- Start date
- Joined
- Aug 18, 2013
- Messages
- 24,062
I've been going all TC of late and thoroughly enjoying the vape, it might make all the difference to the dvarw.
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I've been going all TC of late and thoroughly enjoying the vape, it might make all the difference to the dvarw.
What wire you using John? Ever since @Rob turned me on to NiFe30 that’s pretty much all I use for TC.
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I've been going all TC of late and thoroughly enjoying the vape, it might make all the difference to the dvarw.
Never bothered with TC. Interested to see how you get on with various tanks
I'm using 28awg SS @ed87
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I'm using 28awg SS @ed87
Hmm. I always kind of struggle with SS. What grade bud?
@rew All I can say so far is the Prime and Spica are excellent, the Siren is making my Sultan taste awesome.
@ed87 Sorry, SS316L
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@rew All I can say so far is the Prime and Spica are excellent, the Siren is making my Sultan taste awesome.
Like the sound of this. May have to experiment myself at some point
I read through the TC section to learn up on the intricacies of it and they seemed to suggest spaced works best and aim for 0.5-0.7 ohms. I did a 6 wrap and it lands around 0.7
@ed87 I got a sample of resistherm with the Dani mini but never bothered with it, what gauge are you using, number of wraps and resistance it working with? Is this resistherm or some NiFe30 from some other supplier?
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@ed87 I got a sample of resistherm with the Dani mini but never bothered with it, what gauge are you using, number of wraps and resistance it working with? Is this resistherm or some NiFe30 from some other supplier?
Hey bud, I’ve used the resistherm stuff but for me the stealthvape NiFe30 works better. Typically I’m at 8-10 wraps l, spaced at 28ga
Thanks, great info, the TC section doesn't really have much on NiFe30 and what to aim for so this is a smashing help to me.
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Hey bud, I’ve used the resistherm stuff but for me the stealthvape NiFe30 works better. Typically I’m at 8-10 wraps l, spaced at 28ga
A lot of people swear by the resistherm though so it’s probably just me, give it a try! TCR on resistherm is 320 and on stealthvape NiFe30 it’s 500
I don't suppose you can tell me the TCR you're using for it? I note the Resistherm said 320 but I also read the stealthvape site said theirs was different and that perplexed me to the point of deciding to just use SS.
Ninja'd
Thanks for the crash course in TC @John R & @ed87 . Some great info for a starting point.
Yeah, we should probably start a thread specific to MTL vaping and TC. I'm sure @Simon G could weigh into it quite heavily too as I'm pretty sure he does TC. He started my thoughts on this when he mentioned the wraps as part of another thread.
I’ve tried Ti once but wasn’t impressed, but never tried Ni200 strangely enough.
Might give it a go.
I think I’ll try a TC build on the Pico (with the dvarw) and see how it fares.
I've just ordered a spool of NiFe30 on your recommendation @ed87 . I'll start a separate thread for my TC adventures once it arrives
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I've just ordered a spool of NiFe30 on your recommendation @ed87 . I'll start a separate thread for my TC adventures once it arrives
You won’t look back bud. From stealthvape?
Yep, 28awg as you mentioned, I like wrapping with 28 as it spaces quite nicely and sits in MTL decks quite neatly.
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I've just ordered a spool of NiFe30 on your recommendation @ed87 . I'll start a separate thread for my TC adventures once it arrives
I think junglist swore by nife 30 26awg, 7 wraps in the rose v3 for a stonking vape.
Great build for avoiding dry hits with mtl squonking.
Just stuck a TC build on the Pico with the dvarw (MTL) - 8 wraps NiFe30 28ga, around 0.21 ohms cold.
Uploaded the csv from steam engine via arctic fox and it’s a damn good vape.
Very impressed with the Pico in TC running Arcticfox; it’s dare I say it, in my humble opinion at least a better TC vape than a YIHI board (I said it!!), but not quite as smooth as a DNA or dicodes.
I've a lot to learn I think, csv, wtf is that and uploading, que!!
I followed it up to here...
http://www.steam-engine.org/coil.html?mat=nife30stealth&r=0.21&awg=28&id=2.5
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I've been going all TC of late and thoroughly enjoying the vape, it might make all the difference to the dvarw.
What wire you using John? Ever since @Rob turned me on to NiFe30 that’s pretty much all I use for TC.
↑
I've been going all TC of late and thoroughly enjoying the vape, it might make all the difference to the dvarw.
Never bothered with TC. Interested to see how you get on with various tanks
I'm using 28awg SS @ed87
↑
I'm using 28awg SS @ed87
Hmm. I always kind of struggle with SS. What grade bud?
@rew All I can say so far is the Prime and Spica are excellent, the Siren is making my Sultan taste awesome.
@ed87 Sorry, SS316L
↑
@rew All I can say so far is the Prime and Spica are excellent, the Siren is making my Sultan taste awesome.
Like the sound of this. May have to experiment myself at some point
I read through the TC section to learn up on the intricacies of it and they seemed to suggest spaced works best and aim for 0.5-0.7 ohms. I did a 6 wrap and it lands around 0.7
@ed87 I got a sample of resistherm with the Dani mini but never bothered with it, what gauge are you using, number of wraps and resistance it working with? Is this resistherm or some NiFe30 from some other supplier?
↑
@ed87 I got a sample of resistherm with the Dani mini but never bothered with it, what gauge are you using, number of wraps and resistance it working with? Is this resistherm or some NiFe30 from some other supplier?
Hey bud, I’ve used the resistherm stuff but for me the stealthvape NiFe30 works better. Typically I’m at 8-10 wraps l, spaced at 28ga
Thanks, great info, the TC section doesn't really have much on NiFe30 and what to aim for so this is a smashing help to me.
↑
Hey bud, I’ve used the resistherm stuff but for me the stealthvape NiFe30 works better. Typically I’m at 8-10 wraps l, spaced at 28ga
A lot of people swear by the resistherm though so it’s probably just me, give it a try! TCR on resistherm is 320 and on stealthvape NiFe30 it’s 500
I don't suppose you can tell me the TCR you're using for it? I note the Resistherm said 320 but I also read the stealthvape site said theirs was different and that perplexed me to the point of deciding to just use SS.
Ninja'd
Thanks for the crash course in TC @John R & @ed87 . Some great info for a starting point.
Yeah, we should probably start a thread specific to MTL vaping and TC. I'm sure @Simon G could weigh into it quite heavily too as I'm pretty sure he does TC. He started my thoughts on this when he mentioned the wraps as part of another thread.
I’ve tried Ti once but wasn’t impressed, but never tried Ni200 strangely enough.
Might give it a go.
I think I’ll try a TC build on the Pico (with the dvarw) and see how it fares.
I've just ordered a spool of NiFe30 on your recommendation @ed87 . I'll start a separate thread for my TC adventures once it arrives
↑
I've just ordered a spool of NiFe30 on your recommendation @ed87 . I'll start a separate thread for my TC adventures once it arrives
You won’t look back bud. From stealthvape?
Yep, 28awg as you mentioned, I like wrapping with 28 as it spaces quite nicely and sits in MTL decks quite neatly.
↑
I've just ordered a spool of NiFe30 on your recommendation @ed87 . I'll start a separate thread for my TC adventures once it arrives
I think junglist swore by nife 30 26awg, 7 wraps in the rose v3 for a stonking vape.
Great build for avoiding dry hits with mtl squonking.
Just stuck a TC build on the Pico with the dvarw (MTL) - 8 wraps NiFe30 28ga, around 0.21 ohms cold.
Uploaded the csv from steam engine via arctic fox and it’s a damn good vape.
Very impressed with the Pico in TC running Arcticfox; it’s dare I say it, in my humble opinion at least a better TC vape than a YIHI board (I said it!!), but not quite as smooth as a DNA or dicodes.
I've a lot to learn I think, csv, wtf is that and uploading, que!!
I followed it up to here...
http://www.steam-engine.org/coil.html?mat=nife30stealth&r=0.21&awg=28&id=2.5
D
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Guest
OK, lets get the ball rolling 
Been dabbling with some NiFe30 from Stealthvape, working well so far, only thing I had to remember to do was set the TCR to 500 and all has been well.
Been dabbling with some NiFe30 from Stealthvape, working well so far, only thing I had to remember to do was set the TCR to 500 and all has been well.
- Joined
- Aug 18, 2013
- Messages
- 24,062
0.21 Ohm in the Dvarw? That's the bit I don't get
Simon said to me once, forget the ohm's, do your usual wraps and try it.
↑
Simon said to me once, forget the ohm's, do your usual wraps and try it.
Ok. I have a lot to learn too
I'm hoping to collect the desired ohms range for each material for consistent TC and put them in one thread, e.g. SS316L 0.5-0.7, not sure about NiFe30 but it seems to ohm out a lot lower.
↑
0.21 Ohm in the Dvarw? That's the bit I don't get
it doesn't really matter in TC, how hot or cool the vape is is controlled by the temp you have it set at.
Would you say for consistency it's more down to wire length?
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I've a lot to learn I think, csv, wtf is that and uploading, que!!
I’m quite happy to make a video or tutorial on DNA’s, dicodes and the like if you want?
It sounds complicated but honestly it isn’t. A CSV (comma separated value) file is basically a little ‘table’ that contains resistive values for a wire type vs. Temperature as different metals change resistance characteristics when they’re heated.
This is where TCR comes in. TCR stands for Temperature Coefficient of Resistance, for example kanthal has a TCR value of 0 (well, very close to 0), which means that as it heats up, the resistance of the coil (metal) doesn’t change. A metal with a TCR of 600 (Ni200 for example) will change its resistivity a LOT when heated.
A higher TCR value is easier for the mod to work out what temperature it thinks the coil is at (by using the CSV - graph) to see where the resistance is vs. What temp. It should be at.
The mod has no way of knowing what temperature the coil is, only by taking a reading of the resistance whilst applying power does it make an educated guess of what the temperature is.
There are many different ways in which mods work to maintain this ‘temperature’ (I.e. the power to the coil) but that’s a whole other topic - one of the reasons in fact I’m not keen on YiHi chips for TC is that they utilise a form of PWM (pulse width modulation) to maintain coil power where it will ‘cut’ the voltage to the coil in varying frequencies to maintain a power level - my personal opinion is that makes it noisy(er) and coarse(r) than say a dicodes or DNA chipset. Anyway, I digress.
To summarise - A TCR value is important to a mod so that it knows for the level of resistance increase to expect when heating a coil, and the higher the TCR value the more the resistance changes whilst the coil is heated.
Stainless steel 316L has a very low TCR value of between 88 and 92 which means that the resistance doesn’t change much at all when it’s heated meaning that even minute changes in resistance can equate to many degrees in the eyes of the mod, which is why, in my opinion SS can be a pain to use in TC. This is the reason however why it can be also used in VW mode.
When working with TC, there are some ground rules:
1) Build spaced coils - this gives the best representation of setpoint temperature. If the coil is contact, it is likely to heat up more than the setpoint temperature as the coil isn’t exposed all around to juice, cooling it.
2) make sure EVERY connection is tight and clean. The mod’s 510 threads, the atties 510 threads, the 510 pin, the wire screws, everything.
3) set up your initial resistance (the resistance the mod reads when you put your atty on) when the atty is at room temp (20c ish), I.e. not when you’ve just fired it or whatever as the mod presumes that the resistance it reads first is at ambient temperature, obviously if it isn’t then it’ll throw the whole TC curve out. This is ESPECIALLY important with SS builds.
4) wick looser than you would for VW. You need the juice to flow freely so that it can cool the coil and the mod is regulating the temp correctly - it’s not being ‘choked’ by a dry wick.
HTH
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Would you say for consistency it's more down to wire length?
I don't really know, I follow the P.Busardo school of 'wrap the coil to fit the tank' and don't worry about anything else.
I think we're needing a crash course video @ed87 , LOL. I appreciate what you're saying so I guess I'll just need to thrash away at it
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it doesn't really matter in TC, how hot or cool the vape is is controlled by the temp you have it set at.
Cheers. Gonna be a steep learning curve for me.
↑
0.21 Ohm in the Dvarw? That's the bit I don't get
Yes, the resistance of a lot of TC compatible metals tends to be low, but don’t worry - the mod will only apply enough power to reach the setpoint temperature.
The only time to worry about resistance with TC is with SS builds, because the TCR is so low, it can be difficult for mods to differentiate resistive values at anything lower than 0.5 ohms, it’ll work but give the mod the best chance you can and aim for 0.5 ohms or higher
When I can I’ll make a video Guys. But you’re not seeing my ugly mug!
↑
Cheers. Gonna be a steep learning curve for me.
Wire ordered, check
Le petite box ordered, check.
Thanks for the clear post mate, will be on the TC route soon.
My wire arrived today, unfortunately I haven't had time for it yet.
↑
My wire arrived today, unfortunately I haven't had time for it yet.
I just read that as my wife arrived today etc.
She actually arrived back last night Hate it when she's away with work, so happy day today all round!!
↑
I’m quite happy to make a video or tutorial on DNA’s, dicodes and the like if you want?
It sounds complicated but honestly it isn’t. A CSV (comma separated value) file is basically a little ‘table’ that contains resistive values for a wire type vs. Temperature as different metals change resistance characteristics when they’re heated.
This is where TCR comes in. TCR stands for Temperature Coefficient of Resistance, for example kanthal has a TCR value of 0 (well, very close to 0), which means that as it heats up, the resistance of the coil (metal) doesn’t change. A metal with a TCR of 600 (Ni200 for example) will change its resistivity a LOT when heated.
A higher TCR value is easier for the mod to work out what temperature it thinks the coil is at (by using the CSV - graph) to see where the resistance is vs. What temp. It should be at.
The mod has no way of knowing what temperature the coil is, only by taking a reading of the resistance whilst applying power does it make an educated guess of what the temperature is.
There are many different ways in which mods work to maintain this ‘temperature’ (I.e. the power to the coil) but that’s a whole other topic - one of the reasons in fact I’m not keen on YiHi chips for TC is that they utilise a form of PWM (pulse width modulation) to maintain coil power where it will ‘cut’ the voltage to the coil in varying frequencies to maintain a power level - my personal opinion is that makes it noisy(er) and coarse(r) than say a dicodes or DNA chipset. Anyway, I digress.
To summarise - A TCR value is important to a mod so that it knows for the level of resistance increase to expect when heating a coil, and the higher the TCR value the more the resistance changes whilst the coil is heated.
Stainless steel 316L has a very low TCR value of between 88 and 92 which means that the resistance doesn’t change much at all when it’s heated meaning that even minute changes in resistance can equate to many degrees in the eyes of the mod, which is why, in my opinion SS can be a pain to use in TC. This is the reason however why it can be also used in VW mode.
When working with TC, there are some ground rules:
1) Build spaced coils - this gives the best representation of setpoint temperature. If the coil is contact, it is likely to heat up more than the setpoint temperature as the coil isn’t exposed all around to juice, cooling it.
2) make sure EVERY connection is tight and clean. The mod’s 510 threads, the atties 510 threads, the 510 pin, the wire screws, everything.
3) set up your initial resistance (the resistance the mod reads when you put your atty on) when the atty is at room temp (20c ish), I.e. not when you’ve just fired it or whatever as the mod presumes that the resistance it reads first is at ambient temperature, obviously if it isn’t then it’ll throw the whole TC curve out. This is ESPECIALLY important with SS builds.
4) wick looser than you would for VW. You need the juice to flow freely so that it can cool the coil and the mod is regulating the temp correctly - it’s not being ‘choked’ by a dry wick.
HTH
Click to expand...
Simon said to me once, forget the ohm's, do your usual wraps and try it.
↑
Simon said to me once, forget the ohm's, do your usual wraps and try it.
Ok. I have a lot to learn too
I'm hoping to collect the desired ohms range for each material for consistent TC and put them in one thread, e.g. SS316L 0.5-0.7, not sure about NiFe30 but it seems to ohm out a lot lower.
↑
0.21 Ohm in the Dvarw? That's the bit I don't get
it doesn't really matter in TC, how hot or cool the vape is is controlled by the temp you have it set at.
Would you say for consistency it's more down to wire length?
↑
I've a lot to learn I think, csv, wtf is that and uploading, que!!
I’m quite happy to make a video or tutorial on DNA’s, dicodes and the like if you want?
It sounds complicated but honestly it isn’t. A CSV (comma separated value) file is basically a little ‘table’ that contains resistive values for a wire type vs. Temperature as different metals change resistance characteristics when they’re heated.
This is where TCR comes in. TCR stands for Temperature Coefficient of Resistance, for example kanthal has a TCR value of 0 (well, very close to 0), which means that as it heats up, the resistance of the coil (metal) doesn’t change. A metal with a TCR of 600 (Ni200 for example) will change its resistivity a LOT when heated.
A higher TCR value is easier for the mod to work out what temperature it thinks the coil is at (by using the CSV - graph) to see where the resistance is vs. What temp. It should be at.
The mod has no way of knowing what temperature the coil is, only by taking a reading of the resistance whilst applying power does it make an educated guess of what the temperature is.
There are many different ways in which mods work to maintain this ‘temperature’ (I.e. the power to the coil) but that’s a whole other topic - one of the reasons in fact I’m not keen on YiHi chips for TC is that they utilise a form of PWM (pulse width modulation) to maintain coil power where it will ‘cut’ the voltage to the coil in varying frequencies to maintain a power level - my personal opinion is that makes it noisy(er) and coarse(r) than say a dicodes or DNA chipset. Anyway, I digress.
To summarise - A TCR value is important to a mod so that it knows for the level of resistance increase to expect when heating a coil, and the higher the TCR value the more the resistance changes whilst the coil is heated.
Stainless steel 316L has a very low TCR value of between 88 and 92 which means that the resistance doesn’t change much at all when it’s heated meaning that even minute changes in resistance can equate to many degrees in the eyes of the mod, which is why, in my opinion SS can be a pain to use in TC. This is the reason however why it can be also used in VW mode.
When working with TC, there are some ground rules:
1) Build spaced coils - this gives the best representation of setpoint temperature. If the coil is contact, it is likely to heat up more than the setpoint temperature as the coil isn’t exposed all around to juice, cooling it.
2) make sure EVERY connection is tight and clean. The mod’s 510 threads, the atties 510 threads, the 510 pin, the wire screws, everything.
3) set up your initial resistance (the resistance the mod reads when you put your atty on) when the atty is at room temp (20c ish), I.e. not when you’ve just fired it or whatever as the mod presumes that the resistance it reads first is at ambient temperature, obviously if it isn’t then it’ll throw the whole TC curve out. This is ESPECIALLY important with SS builds.
4) wick looser than you would for VW. You need the juice to flow freely so that it can cool the coil and the mod is regulating the temp correctly - it’s not being ‘choked’ by a dry wick.
HTH
↑
Would you say for consistency it's more down to wire length?
I don't really know, I follow the P.Busardo school of 'wrap the coil to fit the tank' and don't worry about anything else.
I think we're needing a crash course video @ed87 , LOL. I appreciate what you're saying so I guess I'll just need to thrash away at it
↑
it doesn't really matter in TC, how hot or cool the vape is is controlled by the temp you have it set at.
Cheers. Gonna be a steep learning curve for me.
↑
0.21 Ohm in the Dvarw? That's the bit I don't get
Yes, the resistance of a lot of TC compatible metals tends to be low, but don’t worry - the mod will only apply enough power to reach the setpoint temperature.
The only time to worry about resistance with TC is with SS builds, because the TCR is so low, it can be difficult for mods to differentiate resistive values at anything lower than 0.5 ohms, it’ll work but give the mod the best chance you can and aim for 0.5 ohms or higher
When I can I’ll make a video Guys. But you’re not seeing my ugly mug!
↑
Cheers. Gonna be a steep learning curve for me.
Wire ordered, check
Le petite box ordered, check.
Thanks for the clear post mate, will be on the TC route soon.
My wire arrived today, unfortunately I haven't had time for it yet.
↑
My wire arrived today, unfortunately I haven't had time for it yet.
I just read that as my wife arrived today etc.
She actually arrived back last night
Hate it when she's away with work, so happy day today all round!!↑
I’m quite happy to make a video or tutorial on DNA’s, dicodes and the like if you want?
It sounds complicated but honestly it isn’t. A CSV (comma separated value) file is basically a little ‘table’ that contains resistive values for a wire type vs. Temperature as different metals change resistance characteristics when they’re heated.
This is where TCR comes in. TCR stands for Temperature Coefficient of Resistance, for example kanthal has a TCR value of 0 (well, very close to 0), which means that as it heats up, the resistance of the coil (metal) doesn’t change. A metal with a TCR of 600 (Ni200 for example) will change its resistivity a LOT when heated.
A higher TCR value is easier for the mod to work out what temperature it thinks the coil is at (by using the CSV - graph) to see where the resistance is vs. What temp. It should be at.
The mod has no way of knowing what temperature the coil is, only by taking a reading of the resistance whilst applying power does it make an educated guess of what the temperature is.
There are many different ways in which mods work to maintain this ‘temperature’ (I.e. the power to the coil) but that’s a whole other topic - one of the reasons in fact I’m not keen on YiHi chips for TC is that they utilise a form of PWM (pulse width modulation) to maintain coil power where it will ‘cut’ the voltage to the coil in varying frequencies to maintain a power level - my personal opinion is that makes it noisy(er) and coarse(r) than say a dicodes or DNA chipset. Anyway, I digress.
To summarise - A TCR value is important to a mod so that it knows for the level of resistance increase to expect when heating a coil, and the higher the TCR value the more the resistance changes whilst the coil is heated.
Stainless steel 316L has a very low TCR value of between 88 and 92 which means that the resistance doesn’t change much at all when it’s heated meaning that even minute changes in resistance can equate to many degrees in the eyes of the mod, which is why, in my opinion SS can be a pain to use in TC. This is the reason however why it can be also used in VW mode.
When working with TC, there are some ground rules:
1) Build spaced coils - this gives the best representation of setpoint temperature. If the coil is contact, it is likely to heat up more than the setpoint temperature as the coil isn’t exposed all around to juice, cooling it.
2) make sure EVERY connection is tight and clean. The mod’s 510 threads, the atties 510 threads, the 510 pin, the wire screws, everything.
3) set up your initial resistance (the resistance the mod reads when you put your atty on) when the atty is at room temp (20c ish), I.e. not when you’ve just fired it or whatever as the mod presumes that the resistance it reads first is at ambient temperature, obviously if it isn’t then it’ll throw the whole TC curve out. This is ESPECIALLY important with SS builds.
4) wick looser than you would for VW. You need the juice to flow freely so that it can cool the coil and the mod is regulating the temp correctly - it’s not being ‘choked’ by a dry wick.
HTH
Click to expand...
- Joined
- Aug 18, 2013
- Messages
- 24,062
↑
Would you say for consistency it's more down to wire length?
I don't really know, I follow the P.Busardo school of 'wrap the coil to fit the tank' and don't worry about anything else.
I think we're needing a crash course video @ed87 , LOL. I appreciate what you're saying so I guess I'll just need to thrash away at it
↑
it doesn't really matter in TC, how hot or cool the vape is is controlled by the temp you have it set at.
Cheers. Gonna be a steep learning curve for me.
↑
0.21 Ohm in the Dvarw? That's the bit I don't get
Yes, the resistance of a lot of TC compatible metals tends to be low, but don’t worry - the mod will only apply enough power to reach the setpoint temperature.
The only time to worry about resistance with TC is with SS builds, because the TCR is so low, it can be difficult for mods to differentiate resistive values at anything lower than 0.5 ohms, it’ll work but give the mod the best chance you can and aim for 0.5 ohms or higher
When I can I’ll make a video Guys. But you’re not seeing my ugly mug!
↑
Cheers. Gonna be a steep learning curve for me.
try not to over think it, just forget everything you know and adjust the temp to where you like it, there really isn't much more to it. Most difficulties I've had have been just because the mod was junk at TC.
We really appreciate it ed87, I think it's the last mystery of our mod's that's been taunting us for sooooo long. It's only in the last couple of weeks I decided to give it a go again, then after tripping over the 0.5 minimum for SS I started to wonder why that had to be. Seems so obvious when you explain it so clearly that the mod can't detect the change due to the metal composition. If it's easier as you say with more reactive metals to temperature, I'll just do my usual 6 wraps on each type and see how it goes.
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We really appreciate it ed87, I think it's the last mystery of our mod's that's been taunting us for sooooo long. It's only in the last couple of weeks I decided to give it a go again, then after tripping over the 0.5 minimum for SS I started to wonder why that had to be. Seems so obvious when you explain it so clearly that the mod can't detect the change due to the metal composition. If it's easier as you say with more reative metals to temperature, I'll just do my usual 6 wraps on each type and see how it goes.
Yes, SS in TC can be a royal pain in the ass, I’m surprised so many people recommend it for TC (although I will admit, the flavour is good).
Trust me, NiFe30 from SV will see you right. It’s good to work with and has a good TCR of 500, so it’s very ‘responsive’ in terms of resistance to heat.
I assume it's best not to dry-burn NiFe30. Thinking it's a bad idea with the Nickel in it.
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I assume it's best not to dry-burn NiFe30. Thinking it's a bad idea with the Nickel in it.
I always just very quickly pulse my NiFe builds to remove any manufacturing oils.
I don’t glow it or anything like that, literally a low wattage pulse to see a wisp of smoke come off before wicking.
BUT that’s just me, entirely up to you
cheers @ed87 you just explained in one post wot to me years to find out and some stuffs that i didn't know as well
off to buy some of this new wounder wire as ss can be a pain but you can still use it in watts mode if it dont want to play in tc
one thing that i tend to do is before wicking pulse the wire and renip the fixing screws as i seem to get probs with tc if i dont
↑
I’m quite happy to make a video or tutorial on DNA’s, dicodes and the like if you want?
It sounds complicated but honestly it isn’t. A CSV (comma separated value) file is basically a little ‘table’ that contains resistive values for a wire type vs. Temperature as different metals change resistance characteristics when they’re heated.
This is where TCR comes in. TCR stands for Temperature Coefficient of Resistance, for example kanthal has a TCR value of 0 (well, very close to 0), which means that as it heats up, the resistance of the coil (metal) doesn’t change. A metal with a TCR of 600 (Ni200 for example) will change its resistivity a LOT when heated.
A higher TCR value is easier for the mod to work out what temperature it thinks the coil is at (by using the CSV - graph) to see where the resistance is vs. What temp. It should be at.
The mod has no way of knowing what temperature the coil is, only by taking a reading of the resistance whilst applying power does it make an educated guess of what the temperature is.
There are many different ways in which mods work to maintain this ‘temperature’ (I.e. the power to the coil) but that’s a whole other topic - one of the reasons in fact I’m not keen on YiHi chips for TC is that they utilise a form of PWM (pulse width modulation) to maintain coil power where it will ‘cut’ the voltage to the coil in varying frequencies to maintain a power level - my personal opinion is that makes it noisy(er) and coarse(r) than say a dicodes or DNA chipset. Anyway, I digress.
To summarise - A TCR value is important to a mod so that it knows for the level of resistance increase to expect when heating a coil, and the higher the TCR value the more the resistance changes whilst the coil is heated.
Stainless steel 316L has a very low TCR value of between 88 and 92 which means that the resistance doesn’t change much at all when it’s heated meaning that even minute changes in resistance can equate to many degrees in the eyes of the mod, which is why, in my opinion SS can be a pain to use in TC. This is the reason however why it can be also used in VW mode.
When working with TC, there are some ground rules:
1) Build spaced coils - this gives the best representation of setpoint temperature. If the coil is contact, it is likely to heat up more than the setpoint temperature as the coil isn’t exposed all around to juice, cooling it.
2) make sure EVERY connection is tight and clean. The mod’s 510 threads, the atties 510 threads, the 510 pin, the wire screws, everything.
3) set up your initial resistance (the resistance the mod reads when you put your atty on) when the atty is at room temp (20c ish), I.e. not when you’ve just fired it or whatever as the mod presumes that the resistance it reads first is at ambient temperature, obviously if it isn’t then it’ll throw the whole TC curve out. This is ESPECIALLY important with SS builds.
4) wick looser than you would for VW. You need the juice to flow freely so that it can cool the coil and the mod is regulating the temp correctly - it’s not being ‘choked’ by a dry wick.
HTH
Click to expand...
Wire ordered, check
Le petite box ordered, check.
Thanks for the clear post mate, will be on the TC route soon.
My wire arrived today, unfortunately I haven't had time for it yet.
↑
My wire arrived today, unfortunately I haven't had time for it yet.
I just read that as my wife arrived today etc.
She actually arrived back last night Hate it when she's away with work, so happy day today all round!!
↑
I’m quite happy to make a video or tutorial on DNA’s, dicodes and the like if you want?
It sounds complicated but honestly it isn’t. A CSV (comma separated value) file is basically a little ‘table’ that contains resistive values for a wire type vs. Temperature as different metals change resistance characteristics when they’re heated.
This is where TCR comes in. TCR stands for Temperature Coefficient of Resistance, for example kanthal has a TCR value of 0 (well, very close to 0), which means that as it heats up, the resistance of the coil (metal) doesn’t change. A metal with a TCR of 600 (Ni200 for example) will change its resistivity a LOT when heated.
A higher TCR value is easier for the mod to work out what temperature it thinks the coil is at (by using the CSV - graph) to see where the resistance is vs. What temp. It should be at.
The mod has no way of knowing what temperature the coil is, only by taking a reading of the resistance whilst applying power does it make an educated guess of what the temperature is.
There are many different ways in which mods work to maintain this ‘temperature’ (I.e. the power to the coil) but that’s a whole other topic - one of the reasons in fact I’m not keen on YiHi chips for TC is that they utilise a form of PWM (pulse width modulation) to maintain coil power where it will ‘cut’ the voltage to the coil in varying frequencies to maintain a power level - my personal opinion is that makes it noisy(er) and coarse(r) than say a dicodes or DNA chipset. Anyway, I digress.
To summarise - A TCR value is important to a mod so that it knows for the level of resistance increase to expect when heating a coil, and the higher the TCR value the more the resistance changes whilst the coil is heated.
Stainless steel 316L has a very low TCR value of between 88 and 92 which means that the resistance doesn’t change much at all when it’s heated meaning that even minute changes in resistance can equate to many degrees in the eyes of the mod, which is why, in my opinion SS can be a pain to use in TC. This is the reason however why it can be also used in VW mode.
When working with TC, there are some ground rules:
1) Build spaced coils - this gives the best representation of setpoint temperature. If the coil is contact, it is likely to heat up more than the setpoint temperature as the coil isn’t exposed all around to juice, cooling it.
2) make sure EVERY connection is tight and clean. The mod’s 510 threads, the atties 510 threads, the 510 pin, the wire screws, everything.
3) set up your initial resistance (the resistance the mod reads when you put your atty on) when the atty is at room temp (20c ish), I.e. not when you’ve just fired it or whatever as the mod presumes that the resistance it reads first is at ambient temperature, obviously if it isn’t then it’ll throw the whole TC curve out. This is ESPECIALLY important with SS builds.
4) wick looser than you would for VW. You need the juice to flow freely so that it can cool the coil and the mod is regulating the temp correctly - it’s not being ‘choked’ by a dry wick.
HTH
Click to expand...
Just when i thought id finally got what i want/need out of vaping, YOU come out with a damn fine explanation of TC and have well and truelly tempted me into giving ago considering 2 minutes prior to reading that, i didnt really give a toss about tc what-so-ever and thought id had it all with the simple power mode.
THANKS lol.
↑
Just when i thought id finally got what i want/need out of vaping, YOU come out with a damn fine explanation of TC and have well and truelly tempted me into giving ago considering 2 minutes prior to reading that, i didnt really give a toss about tc what-so-ever and thought id had it all with the simple power mode.
THANKS lol.
You’re welcome
↑
Just when i thought id finally got what i want/need out of vaping, YOU come out with a damn fine explanation of TC and have well and truelly tempted me into giving ago considering 2 minutes prior to reading that, i didnt really give a toss about tc what-so-ever and thought id had it all with the simple power mode.
THANKS lol.
Exactly what I was thinking
↑
You’re welcome
Got me also you bugger.
Sorry Simon derailed again.
Would you say for consistency it's more down to wire length?
I don't really know, I follow the P.Busardo school of 'wrap the coil to fit the tank' and don't worry about anything else.
I think we're needing a crash course video @ed87 , LOL. I appreciate what you're saying so I guess I'll just need to thrash away at it
↑
it doesn't really matter in TC, how hot or cool the vape is is controlled by the temp you have it set at.
Cheers. Gonna be a steep learning curve for me.
↑
0.21 Ohm in the Dvarw? That's the bit I don't get
Yes, the resistance of a lot of TC compatible metals tends to be low, but don’t worry - the mod will only apply enough power to reach the setpoint temperature.
The only time to worry about resistance with TC is with SS builds, because the TCR is so low, it can be difficult for mods to differentiate resistive values at anything lower than 0.5 ohms, it’ll work but give the mod the best chance you can and aim for 0.5 ohms or higher
When I can I’ll make a video Guys. But you’re not seeing my ugly mug!
↑
Cheers. Gonna be a steep learning curve for me.
try not to over think it, just forget everything you know and adjust the temp to where you like it, there really isn't much more to it. Most difficulties I've had have been just because the mod was junk at TC.
We really appreciate it ed87, I think it's the last mystery of our mod's that's been taunting us for sooooo long. It's only in the last couple of weeks I decided to give it a go again, then after tripping over the 0.5 minimum for SS I started to wonder why that had to be. Seems so obvious when you explain it so clearly that the mod can't detect the change due to the metal composition. If it's easier as you say with more reactive metals to temperature, I'll just do my usual 6 wraps on each type and see how it goes.
↑
We really appreciate it ed87, I think it's the last mystery of our mod's that's been taunting us for sooooo long. It's only in the last couple of weeks I decided to give it a go again, then after tripping over the 0.5 minimum for SS I started to wonder why that had to be. Seems so obvious when you explain it so clearly that the mod can't detect the change due to the metal composition. If it's easier as you say with more reative metals to temperature, I'll just do my usual 6 wraps on each type and see how it goes.
Yes, SS in TC can be a royal pain in the ass, I’m surprised so many people recommend it for TC (although I will admit, the flavour is good).
Trust me, NiFe30 from SV will see you right. It’s good to work with and has a good TCR of 500, so it’s very ‘responsive’ in terms of resistance to heat.
I assume it's best not to dry-burn NiFe30. Thinking it's a bad idea with the Nickel in it.
↑
I assume it's best not to dry-burn NiFe30. Thinking it's a bad idea with the Nickel in it.
I always just very quickly pulse my NiFe builds to remove any manufacturing oils.
I don’t glow it or anything like that, literally a low wattage pulse to see a wisp of smoke come off before wicking.
BUT that’s just me, entirely up to you
cheers @ed87 you just explained in one post wot to me years to find out and some stuffs that i didn't know as well
off to buy some of this new wounder wire as ss can be a pain but you can still use it in watts mode if it dont want to play in tc
one thing that i tend to do is before wicking pulse the wire and renip the fixing screws as i seem to get probs with tc if i dont
↑
I’m quite happy to make a video or tutorial on DNA’s, dicodes and the like if you want?
It sounds complicated but honestly it isn’t. A CSV (comma separated value) file is basically a little ‘table’ that contains resistive values for a wire type vs. Temperature as different metals change resistance characteristics when they’re heated.
This is where TCR comes in. TCR stands for Temperature Coefficient of Resistance, for example kanthal has a TCR value of 0 (well, very close to 0), which means that as it heats up, the resistance of the coil (metal) doesn’t change. A metal with a TCR of 600 (Ni200 for example) will change its resistivity a LOT when heated.
A higher TCR value is easier for the mod to work out what temperature it thinks the coil is at (by using the CSV - graph) to see where the resistance is vs. What temp. It should be at.
The mod has no way of knowing what temperature the coil is, only by taking a reading of the resistance whilst applying power does it make an educated guess of what the temperature is.
There are many different ways in which mods work to maintain this ‘temperature’ (I.e. the power to the coil) but that’s a whole other topic - one of the reasons in fact I’m not keen on YiHi chips for TC is that they utilise a form of PWM (pulse width modulation) to maintain coil power where it will ‘cut’ the voltage to the coil in varying frequencies to maintain a power level - my personal opinion is that makes it noisy(er) and coarse(r) than say a dicodes or DNA chipset. Anyway, I digress.
To summarise - A TCR value is important to a mod so that it knows for the level of resistance increase to expect when heating a coil, and the higher the TCR value the more the resistance changes whilst the coil is heated.
Stainless steel 316L has a very low TCR value of between 88 and 92 which means that the resistance doesn’t change much at all when it’s heated meaning that even minute changes in resistance can equate to many degrees in the eyes of the mod, which is why, in my opinion SS can be a pain to use in TC. This is the reason however why it can be also used in VW mode.
When working with TC, there are some ground rules:
1) Build spaced coils - this gives the best representation of setpoint temperature. If the coil is contact, it is likely to heat up more than the setpoint temperature as the coil isn’t exposed all around to juice, cooling it.
2) make sure EVERY connection is tight and clean. The mod’s 510 threads, the atties 510 threads, the 510 pin, the wire screws, everything.
3) set up your initial resistance (the resistance the mod reads when you put your atty on) when the atty is at room temp (20c ish), I.e. not when you’ve just fired it or whatever as the mod presumes that the resistance it reads first is at ambient temperature, obviously if it isn’t then it’ll throw the whole TC curve out. This is ESPECIALLY important with SS builds.
4) wick looser than you would for VW. You need the juice to flow freely so that it can cool the coil and the mod is regulating the temp correctly - it’s not being ‘choked’ by a dry wick.
HTH
Click to expand...
Wire ordered, check
Le petite box ordered, check.
Thanks for the clear post mate, will be on the TC route soon.
My wire arrived today, unfortunately I haven't had time for it yet.
↑
My wire arrived today, unfortunately I haven't had time for it yet.
I just read that as my wife arrived today etc.
She actually arrived back last night
Hate it when she's away with work, so happy day today all round!!↑
I’m quite happy to make a video or tutorial on DNA’s, dicodes and the like if you want?
It sounds complicated but honestly it isn’t. A CSV (comma separated value) file is basically a little ‘table’ that contains resistive values for a wire type vs. Temperature as different metals change resistance characteristics when they’re heated.
This is where TCR comes in. TCR stands for Temperature Coefficient of Resistance, for example kanthal has a TCR value of 0 (well, very close to 0), which means that as it heats up, the resistance of the coil (metal) doesn’t change. A metal with a TCR of 600 (Ni200 for example) will change its resistivity a LOT when heated.
A higher TCR value is easier for the mod to work out what temperature it thinks the coil is at (by using the CSV - graph) to see where the resistance is vs. What temp. It should be at.
The mod has no way of knowing what temperature the coil is, only by taking a reading of the resistance whilst applying power does it make an educated guess of what the temperature is.
There are many different ways in which mods work to maintain this ‘temperature’ (I.e. the power to the coil) but that’s a whole other topic - one of the reasons in fact I’m not keen on YiHi chips for TC is that they utilise a form of PWM (pulse width modulation) to maintain coil power where it will ‘cut’ the voltage to the coil in varying frequencies to maintain a power level - my personal opinion is that makes it noisy(er) and coarse(r) than say a dicodes or DNA chipset. Anyway, I digress.
To summarise - A TCR value is important to a mod so that it knows for the level of resistance increase to expect when heating a coil, and the higher the TCR value the more the resistance changes whilst the coil is heated.
Stainless steel 316L has a very low TCR value of between 88 and 92 which means that the resistance doesn’t change much at all when it’s heated meaning that even minute changes in resistance can equate to many degrees in the eyes of the mod, which is why, in my opinion SS can be a pain to use in TC. This is the reason however why it can be also used in VW mode.
When working with TC, there are some ground rules:
1) Build spaced coils - this gives the best representation of setpoint temperature. If the coil is contact, it is likely to heat up more than the setpoint temperature as the coil isn’t exposed all around to juice, cooling it.
2) make sure EVERY connection is tight and clean. The mod’s 510 threads, the atties 510 threads, the 510 pin, the wire screws, everything.
3) set up your initial resistance (the resistance the mod reads when you put your atty on) when the atty is at room temp (20c ish), I.e. not when you’ve just fired it or whatever as the mod presumes that the resistance it reads first is at ambient temperature, obviously if it isn’t then it’ll throw the whole TC curve out. This is ESPECIALLY important with SS builds.
4) wick looser than you would for VW. You need the juice to flow freely so that it can cool the coil and the mod is regulating the temp correctly - it’s not being ‘choked’ by a dry wick.
HTH
Click to expand...
Just when i thought id finally got what i want/need out of vaping, YOU come out with a damn fine explanation of TC and have well and truelly tempted me into giving ago considering 2 minutes prior to reading that, i didnt really give a toss about tc what-so-ever and thought id had it all with the simple power mode.
THANKS lol.
↑
Just when i thought id finally got what i want/need out of vaping, YOU come out with a damn fine explanation of TC and have well and truelly tempted me into giving ago considering 2 minutes prior to reading that, i didnt really give a toss about tc what-so-ever and thought id had it all with the simple power mode.
THANKS lol.
You’re welcome
↑
Just when i thought id finally got what i want/need out of vaping, YOU come out with a damn fine explanation of TC and have well and truelly tempted me into giving ago considering 2 minutes prior to reading that, i didnt really give a toss about tc what-so-ever and thought id had it all with the simple power mode.
THANKS lol.
Exactly what I was thinking
↑
You’re welcome
Got me also you bugger.
Sorry Simon derailed again.
D
Deleted member 54254
Guest
I took the gentle dig from Simon and asked Rob if he would mind tidying up the mess I created in the tank thread, please accept my apologies all 
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