Back to School Jab rollout for 12~15's

[Fuctifino]

Seems like all those hundreds of School Immunisation jobs on indeed.com will be put to use soon

https://www.reuters.com/article/health-coronavirus-britain-vaccine-idUSFWN2PW136

Although no official announcement (yet), seems like emails & plans to prepare are looking likely
Bit worrying they reckon they might be able to do this without parental consent - wtf ???
Interesting they report they could have 75% jabbed by November

I wonder what age group they will look into say in January 2022 ???

 

[Crewella]

Bit more:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...vaccines-for-children-from-age-12-reports-say

 

[Crewella]

... I thought this was the interesting bit from that, about parental consent ........

The Telegraph said it had seen NHS guidance suggesting that 12- to 15-year-olds should be considered competent to decide for themselves whether to consent to being vaccinated. Trusts were being asked to devise plans to begin the distribution of the vaccine in schools on 6 September, with the goal of vaccinating 75% of children by 1 November, the paper reported internal emails as saying.​

 

[Fuctifino]

... I thought this was the interesting bit from that, about parental consent ........

The Telegraph said it had seen NHS guidance suggesting that 12- to 15-year-olds should be considered competent to decide for themselves whether to consent to being vaccinated. Trusts were being asked to devise plans to begin the distribution of the vaccine in schools on 6 September, with the goal of vaccinating 75% of children by 1 November, the paper reported internal emails as saying.​

I'm somewhat sceptical of some of these reports though
from The Guardian whilst reading your linked story...

4,000+ polled & 88% of parents of u16's back their child being jabbed...

https://www.theguardian.com/society...o-back-covid-jabs-for-children-says-uk-expert

Also BBC ran a posted a snippet at lunchtime saying Children's Society says something similar
with a poll of just over 2,000 polled...

As a parent of a 14 year old - ergh I am not in the 88% bracket
and that is also the case of other friends & colleagues with young kids
so I am somewhat sceptical where they get their data from tbh

FINE - it is up to the parents in the end - or rather it might not be
Maybe some parents & even grandparents might be a little concerned
but seems like it might not matter if the kids don't need parental consent

the thing that worries me (and missus) is how they could be coerced into taking it
Missus (who is jabbed btw), is of the mindset that our 14 should wait until 16 & decide himself
(Me would rather 18 & decide, but we both agree that our 14 should not be jabbed)

My concern is that we informed the school clearly & vividly we do not consent to LFT
But then he came home one day and was pressured into taking one
(which the moment you comply once that is it, you did it last time etc...)

This mistake by the school was blamed on an admin error etc...
My concern is that will the same "admin error" occur again with vaccinations ???

Ho hum - we shall see what happens

 

[Crewella]

I'm somewhat sceptical of some of these reports though
from The Guardian whilst reading your linked story...

4,000+ polled & 88% of parents of u16's back their child being jabbed...

https://www.theguardian.com/society...o-back-covid-jabs-for-children-says-uk-expert

Also BBC ran a posted a snippet at lunchtime saying Children's Society says something similar
with a poll of just over 2,000 polled...

View attachment 253491

As a parent of a 14 year old - ergh I am not in the 88% bracket
and that is also the case of other friends & colleagues with young kids
so I am somewhat sceptical where they get their data from tbh

FINE - it is up to the parents in the end - or rather it might not be
Maybe some parents & even grandparents might be a little concerned
but seems like it might not matter if the kids don't need parental consent

the thing that worries me (and missus) is how they could be coerced into taking it
Missus (who is jabbed btw), is of the mindset that our 14 should wait until 16 & decide himself
(Me would rather 18 & decide, but we both agree that our 14 should not be jabbed)

My concern is that we informed the school clearly & vividly we do not consent to LFT
But then he came home one day and was pressured into taking one
(which the moment you comply once that is it, you did it last time etc...)

This mistake by the school was blamed on an admin error etc...
My concern is that will the same "admin error" occur again with vaccinations ???

Ho hum - we shall see what happens

I think this is just supposition, until we get some actual reports.

Personally, it's something I try not to have an opinion on - I don't have kids of my own and, because I had a ridiculous globe-trotting childhood, I was vaccinated for anything and everything as a child ...... so I'm likely to find it harder to comprehend concerns? Having said that, yes, if that had happened to me I would be spitting feathers and deeply concerned too.

 

[Fuctifino]

I think this is just supposition, until we get some actual reports.

Personally, it's something I try not to have an opinion on - I don't have kids of my own and, because I had a ridiculous globe-trotting childhood, I was vaccinated for anything and everything as a child ...... so I'm likely to find it harder to comprehend concerns? Having said that, yes, if that had happened to me I would be spitting feathers and deeply concerned too.

Agreed, we was jabbed for all sorts & when we travelled to far east
me & missus was jabbed for about 4 or 5 things before we left for Hong Kong (before handed back)
Singapore, Thailand & Indonesia

Not gonna go into all the details, but youngest is autistic & in a unit with other kids like him (statemented)
and even though missus & myself even are not anti-vaxxers, we do have varying levels of concern
Me obviously more than missus as she has been double jabbed & me no jab at all
so it is a delicate & perhaps slightly divided subject in our house

We didn't want to put him through the possible anxiety of the LFT which we made clear to school
(fuck me, if he kicks off he really goes, but otherwise he is maybe a little like Lennie in Mice & Men)

He came home a little more quiet than usual that day & we knew something had happened
and found out he was coerced into taking it - in his case strongly coerced by the school
He was pressured that he wouldn't be able to mix with others, do gym & other activities
& pressured into doing it coz "all the others have done" & "you need to this as it is school policy"

Fuck the calls & emails where we stated clearly we do not consent to this on our son
He attended the unit very frequently - even when most of the school/unit was off doing zoom lessons
We worked with the school, saying we felt he needed to maintain the offer of lessons
(I was officially a key worker, but it was more to keep him in a routine than let him lapse at home with zoom
lessons which he has limited attention span unless encouraged by one of the teaching assistants etc...)

TL-DR, it is a techy subject and for once both me & the missus fully agree we do not want him jabbed - YET

The real concern is that what parents/guardians decide may not always be fully respected or adhered to
to which we know "admin errors" can & do happen so fuels our concern more

Other jabs - no problem, but this COVID jab and perhaps the flu jab for u16's
I/we do not agree with under any circumstances & make no apology if this conflicts with others opinions

We shall see what plays out

 

[Crewella]

Agreed, we was jabbed for all sorts & when we travelled to far east
me & missus was jabbed for about 4 or 5 things before we left for Hong Kong (before handed back)
Singapore, Thailand & Indonesia

Not gonna go into all the details, but youngest is autistic & in a unit with other kids like him (statemented)
and even though missus & myself even are not anti-vaxxers, we do have varying levels of concern
Me obviously more than missus as she has been double jabbed & me no jab at all
so it is a delicate & perhaps slightly divided subject in our house

We didn't want to put him through the possible anxiety of the LFT which we made clear to school
(fuck me, if he kicks off he really goes, but otherwise he is maybe a little like Lennie in Mice & Men)

He came home a little more quiet than usual that day & we knew something had happened
and found out he was coerced into taking it - in his case strongly coerced by the school
He was pressured that he wouldn't be able to mix with others, do gym & other activities
& pressured into doing it coz "all the others have done" & "you need to this as it is school policy"

Fuck the calls & emails where we stated clearly we do not consent to this on our son
He attended the unit very frequently - even when most of the school/unit was off doing zoom lessons
We worked with the school, saying we felt he needed to maintain the offer of lessons
(I was officially a key worker, but it was more to keep him in a routine than let him lapse at home with zoom
lessons which he has limited attention span unless encouraged by one of the teaching assistants etc...)

TL-DR, it is a techy subject and for once both me & the missus fully agree we do not want him jabbed - YET

The real concern is that what parents/guardians decide may not always be fully respected or adhered to
to which we know "admin errors" can & do happen so fuels our concern more

Other jabs - no problem, but this COVID jab and perhaps the flu jab for u16's
I/we do not agree with under any circumstances & make no apology if this conflicts with others opinions

We shall see what plays out

Thank you for explaining. It really helps to understand the depth of the issue for some people.

 

[Fuctifino]

Well nobody saw today's announcement coming (sarcasm)

The Government are using the Gillick Competence
(Victoria Gillick campaign for u16 contraception)

Children under the age of 16 can consent to their own treatment if they're believed to have enough intelligence, competence and understanding to fully appreciate what's involved in their treatment. This is known as being Gillick competent.

OK - so they are using this ruling to justify the OFFER to 12~15 year old's
(I mean they are using the word "offer" when they have recommended it
yet attempting to alter the context of the wording: offer of vaccination
that they have decided to recommend - they are recommending it FFS)

ANYWAY...

Gillick originated that a child who visited a GP or family planning clinic
OF THEIR OWN FREE WILL should be allowed to consent to the pill etc...

Now by using Gillick Compentance, then apply it in the same way it was intended

Don't fucking allow the newly employed School Immunisation Officers to rack up
at various schools, usher the children into room/hall to be jabbed en-mass
BUT simply apply it as intended...

If a child 12~15 goes to their own GP, established family planning clinic
or in this case their GP or established vaccine centre - BY THEIR OWN FREE WILL

The child has already started to make their own free choice to travel to a local vaccine centre
There at the vaccine centre, a medical officer will ask a few questions & then maybe allow the
child to make an inform choice for consent (Gillick)

The very essence, that the child has made a decision to visit the centre by their own choice
will be the foundation to proceed with immunisation based on Gillick, after a few questions

They will not run the risk of possible coercion at school where maybe the child and parents
have discussed the issue surrounding vaccination. They will not feel coerced, not pressured
by other friends or teachers if the child actually decides to visit a vaccine centre or GP

My personal opinion is that if a 12~15 year old child racked up at a vaccine centre, then
I believe many centres will not be comfortable in deciding that child was fully competent
to reach that decision regarding Gillick comepence/consent
and simply decline or advise the child to return with a parent/guardian
Even a GP surgery might think twice about receiving vaccination fees for jabbing a u16,
as I think they may not want to risk the liability or consequences from irate parents of child

The Government will jab the kids at school than simply allow the child to take up the OFFER
of vaccination consent via Gillick blah blah blah...

If my kid visits a clinic by themselves, making a free choice & decision to visit the clinic,
making that journey, embarking upon a journey to consent - then there is not much I can do

However - I am extremely annoyed, at today's decision hiding behind the OFFER & Gillick legislation
when I know just how easy the children can be coerced whilst at school...

Today's OFFER & GILLICK I have to accept - I DO NOT AGREE WITH IT OR WAY IT WAS DECIDED
BUT do NOT jab the kids like this en-mass at school
allow them to visit the vaccine centres themselves, if parents want their kids jabbed then they can
both visit the vaccine centres together...
If Parent says jab little Billy, but Billy says fuck off when he reaches the centre...
Then the Child's decision is final & was also part of the Gillick consent legislation

What the government is doing is skirting around the actual message of offer/recommendation
whilst riding roughshod over consent, quoting Gillick but vaccination en-mass at school
instead of child/person starting to make that choice themselves when they embarked on their
own journey to visit an established vaccine centre or GP or branch of Boots etc...

If parents, governments want the kids jabbed - fine
allow them to visit a vaccine centre and make that decision (Gillick) once there
don't just rack up & jab kids like cattle en-mass

Today has proven that they always intended to jab the kids
the decision about not implementing passports and certain powers was all just a distraction
Ultimately despite other advice they fully intended to press ahead with child vaccination

 

[zouzounaki]

maybe they are trying to prevent covid deniers and conspiracy theorists from imposing their madness on their teenage children.

 

[andipandi]

Read something about the jab being good for the children's mental health, said by whitty, wtaf