What will you do if the EU Directive is Passed and E-Cigs/E-Liquid is Banned?
Hi like a few other members have posted I'm stocking up on tanks,mods and liquids and am going to get some stash some nic in the freezer will have enough to last till I've totally kicked the smoking
NiteMare
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base fluids and concentrates (regular medical and food items) apart from nicotine won't be affected, nicotine might be only available in restricted size bottles but i'm not sure on that as no-one in thier right mind would put nicotine as bought in thier rta/rda
no-one is going to stop the chinese selling mods/tanks/drippers so if the worst comes you'll be waiting for vape mail and hoping customs don't intercept it
or you'll be buying self assembly kits or mech mods
batteries won't be touched, batteries are only storage cells
as far as i'm concerned all that will be happening is the prices will probably climb (as per usual when the government stick thier fingers in) and the choices will probably get less, there'll also be no guarantee with self assembly kits
there's always going to be a way round these problems just the same as when cigarette prices climbed crazily with all the dodgy imports, the only difference will not being able to just hop on the ferry and go buy a years supply
so for now i'd just be looking for a couple of good mods if you don't want to self assemble and rebuildable tanks and drippers along with maybe a litre or two of nicotine to tide you over for a year or two until the blackmarket is sorted (cigarettes were 4quid a pack, i was paying less than 2quid a pack when i was involved in the cigarette/tobacco fiasco)
no-one is going to stop the chinese selling mods/tanks/drippers so if the worst comes you'll be waiting for vape mail and hoping customs don't intercept it
or you'll be buying self assembly kits or mech mods
batteries won't be touched, batteries are only storage cells
as far as i'm concerned all that will be happening is the prices will probably climb (as per usual when the government stick thier fingers in) and the choices will probably get less, there'll also be no guarantee with self assembly kits
there's always going to be a way round these problems just the same as when cigarette prices climbed crazily with all the dodgy imports, the only difference will not being able to just hop on the ferry and go buy a years supply
so for now i'd just be looking for a couple of good mods if you don't want to self assemble and rebuildable tanks and drippers along with maybe a litre or two of nicotine to tide you over for a year or two until the blackmarket is sorted (cigarettes were 4quid a pack, i was paying less than 2quid a pack when i was involved in the cigarette/tobacco fiasco)
AnnaLaw
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- Dec 13, 2012
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- 503
We now know that refill bottles will either have a nozzle that limits filling to 20 drops in a minute or one that only works when fitted to a tank filing device (proprietary?) so it seems that cutting bottles will be common. The reason for this - "nicotine is so toxic that it must be impossible to accidentally get any on your skin". This of course is based on the disproved 19th century toxicity guess and an old Pharma movie showing that one drop of (pure) nicotine kills a mouse.
The MHRA is in charges of eliquid notifications and have produced a cost breakdown.. only £220 for each variant, followed by £50 to renew each year.
It does seem, judging from the draft law and replies to the consultation (which was open to everybody but only 709 members of the public took part) that the UK government are enforcing the minimum required but even that is way too much.
Online sales will be permitted but vendors have to be licensed. I think this includes consumers living in the UK buying from, say, China. There are penalties for non-compliance of 3months prison and/or a fine, going up to 2 years prison and a fine. So what we can buy legally will be very limited and cost more, with not many legal vendors.
At least anything developed can be placed in the market until November 2016 and old non-compliant stock can be sold until May 2017. I wonder if there's a connection with the EU referendum? Doubt it, most vapers have proved they either know or do nothing so few would vote to leave the EU because of the TPD. There aren't enough of us who know of the TPD and are prepared to do something about it and those that do spend more time on infighting.
I am disgusted by this, and the 'I'm OK as I stocked up' view. The minority of hobby vapers will find ways round but what about those who would have switched but will continue smoking because of the TPD and media scaremongering?
As for the black market, we'd have no way of checking safety and that would be the first thing to go.
I remember when, as a smoker, I bought a pack of fake cigarettes. I lit one and it tasted so disgusting I threw the lot away after a couple of drags. They were cheap but whatever was in them was vile and probably included rat droppings.
Personally I'm buying tanks, mods and eliquid frequently and have several mods and tanks I've only opened to test they work. I'm not fond of sub ohm and, like many, I've become lazy with tanks, preferring to change heads than make coils. But the few non-ego MTL tanks on sale are either without an RBA deck or are very expensive rebuildables. I loved my KFL but I've not used it for a year. That's saved for post-TPD. I don't know if pharma-grade nicotine that can't be used as an eliquid will remain controlled by the Poisons Act, as the TPD only mentions eliquid. But for new vapers nothing will be advertised, it will be illegal to tell the truth that it's safer than smoking and can replace it, and if you want to learn what compliant products are like check the Vype and Njoy web sites. You can buy a basic 2nd gen kit with a throwaway clearomiser which can be refilled using their proprietary everything, with 9 flavours going up to 12 mg/ml. Useless for most smokers who want to switch and more expensive.
I'm reasonably OK but expect vaping to drop and switching to drop even more.
The TPD Art 20 makes statements for its existence that have been proved wrong by reputable science so now the reports set up to prove vaping is dangerous and leads to nicotine addiction and smoking are the ones accepted as true!
Everything vaping will have to carry a printed lie; 'nicotine is highly addictive and not to be used by non-smokers'. The evidence shows that nicotine without tobacco has little or no addictive properties and many vapers are now non-smokers!
At least the UK will not include 0 nicotine products but I doubt that big tanks will be legally sold if they are labelled 'unsuitable and must not be used for nicotine-containing products'.
The MHRA is in charges of eliquid notifications and have produced a cost breakdown.. only £220 for each variant, followed by £50 to renew each year.
It does seem, judging from the draft law and replies to the consultation (which was open to everybody but only 709 members of the public took part) that the UK government are enforcing the minimum required but even that is way too much.
Online sales will be permitted but vendors have to be licensed. I think this includes consumers living in the UK buying from, say, China. There are penalties for non-compliance of 3months prison and/or a fine, going up to 2 years prison and a fine. So what we can buy legally will be very limited and cost more, with not many legal vendors.
At least anything developed can be placed in the market until November 2016 and old non-compliant stock can be sold until May 2017. I wonder if there's a connection with the EU referendum? Doubt it, most vapers have proved they either know or do nothing so few would vote to leave the EU because of the TPD. There aren't enough of us who know of the TPD and are prepared to do something about it and those that do spend more time on infighting.
I am disgusted by this, and the 'I'm OK as I stocked up' view. The minority of hobby vapers will find ways round but what about those who would have switched but will continue smoking because of the TPD and media scaremongering?
As for the black market, we'd have no way of checking safety and that would be the first thing to go.
I remember when, as a smoker, I bought a pack of fake cigarettes. I lit one and it tasted so disgusting I threw the lot away after a couple of drags. They were cheap but whatever was in them was vile and probably included rat droppings.
Personally I'm buying tanks, mods and eliquid frequently and have several mods and tanks I've only opened to test they work. I'm not fond of sub ohm and, like many, I've become lazy with tanks, preferring to change heads than make coils. But the few non-ego MTL tanks on sale are either without an RBA deck or are very expensive rebuildables. I loved my KFL but I've not used it for a year. That's saved for post-TPD. I don't know if pharma-grade nicotine that can't be used as an eliquid will remain controlled by the Poisons Act, as the TPD only mentions eliquid. But for new vapers nothing will be advertised, it will be illegal to tell the truth that it's safer than smoking and can replace it, and if you want to learn what compliant products are like check the Vype and Njoy web sites. You can buy a basic 2nd gen kit with a throwaway clearomiser which can be refilled using their proprietary everything, with 9 flavours going up to 12 mg/ml. Useless for most smokers who want to switch and more expensive.
I'm reasonably OK but expect vaping to drop and switching to drop even more.
The TPD Art 20 makes statements for its existence that have been proved wrong by reputable science so now the reports set up to prove vaping is dangerous and leads to nicotine addiction and smoking are the ones accepted as true!
Everything vaping will have to carry a printed lie; 'nicotine is highly addictive and not to be used by non-smokers'. The evidence shows that nicotine without tobacco has little or no addictive properties and many vapers are now non-smokers!
At least the UK will not include 0 nicotine products but I doubt that big tanks will be legally sold if they are labelled 'unsuitable and must not be used for nicotine-containing products'.
the_atomic_fart
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- Nov 15, 2015
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I'll be carrying on as I am.
I assume i'll still be able to purchase base nicotine in some form and volume?
I assume i'll still be able to purchase base nicotine in some form and volume?
AnnaLaw
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- Dec 13, 2012
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Yes, you will be able to buy base if it is under 20mg/ml and sold in 10 ml bottles with a special leak free filling mechanism, either a nozzle at least 1 cm long that delivers a maximum of 20 drops a minute or a filling device that will only work when in contact with a proprietary tank filling mechanism.
If you hold a poisons license there will be no limit in the strength of base nicotine but you'd have to get a permit to sell it, and bottles of e-liquid would have to comply. The TPD says nicotine must be EU or USA pharma quality.
We don't know what black and grey market stuff will be on sale but it is unlikely to be EU or US pharma quality. You will be allowed to buy from outside the EU for personal use if base nicotine is available to sell, but it may be that carriers refuse to ship it. If so, and a false declaration is made it could endanger postal workers who are unaware of dangerous contents. High concentration base nic is dangerous so I can foresee accidents, probably mostly with new switchers who need higher strengths, possibly buy 99% pure nic, and fail to take the extreme precautions needed to work with it.
Of course ecigs haven't been banned but the TPD is designed for tobacco company cigalikes .which are little more than proof of concept. I was only able to halve the cigs I smoked until I bought a 3rd gen setup.
the_atomic_fart
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Contacted Vapable,
Kath there sent me the following link to the website.....
http://vapable.com/tobacco-products-directive-information/
Excerpt from it...............
'Nicotine
Nicotine in PG or VG for DIY e liquid mixing is the product we are least clear about at the moment. It is something of a grey area.
It will be illegal to sell e liquid at more that 10ml in size or 20mg in strength. However, nicotine isn’t e liquid and isn’t vaped alone.
Nicotine does have other applications, though not really for the general public. So again, we doubt that Trading Standards would allow retailers to sell nicotine alongside other vaping supplies. If this is the case, we may set up another separate business just for nicotine, if there is a demand from our DIY customers for the decent quality vaping grade nicotine that we currently are able to supply.'
Kath there sent me the following link to the website.....
http://vapable.com/tobacco-products-directive-information/
Excerpt from it...............
'Nicotine
Nicotine in PG or VG for DIY e liquid mixing is the product we are least clear about at the moment. It is something of a grey area.
It will be illegal to sell e liquid at more that 10ml in size or 20mg in strength. However, nicotine isn’t e liquid and isn’t vaped alone.
Nicotine does have other applications, though not really for the general public. So again, we doubt that Trading Standards would allow retailers to sell nicotine alongside other vaping supplies. If this is the case, we may set up another separate business just for nicotine, if there is a demand from our DIY customers for the decent quality vaping grade nicotine that we currently are able to supply.'
oldhippydude
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- Apr 6, 2014
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- 6,016
They certainly are not clear about nicotine.
Do they plan to sell nicotine in non liquid form?
What do they plan to cut it with? At least 92.5% non liquid stuff.
Is non liquid nicotine even a thing ?
Without a poisons license we can currently only legally buy 7.5% nicotine.
The rules about nicotine containing liquid applies to the liquid no matter what it is for.
They are not the only nic supplier that thinks there is a legal way round the regulations.
I can not see it.
And their response strengthens my view that they are wrong.
collateral diarrhea
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- Feb 12, 2015
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Darknet vape shops anyone?!
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