TPD ... consequences

[DakotaMai]

^^^^ This on so many levels ^^^^

 

[vandykevapes]

I've been trying really hard not to get involved in these threads for obvious reasons, but I can't resist...

Firstly, talks of 'millions of litres' are just absurd. I know I speak for pretty much all the vendors that take the time on here to answer questions and get involved with the community that we are producing artesian products in small(ish) batches that are nowhere near these volumes.

Secondly, as others have pointed out already, it's easy to see why somebody who is used to DIYing their own juices may feel that we who produce commercially are 'ripping people off' or charging unfairly, as the base materials can be fairly inexpensive.

Unfortunately, the costs of raw materials only accounts for a small percentage of the overheads for any manufacturing operation, e-liquids included. I have noticed that this is often overlooked - probably because those who DIY know that it is a relatively simple process to mix an e-liquid. This arguement does not represent the true cost of the final products after all other factors have been considered.

Like any industry, there is a wide range of products available to vapers, and a wide range of options for people to make their own juices. Nobody is stopping them, in the same way that nobody is stopping anybody from cooking their own meals, cutting their own hair, making their own clothes, brewing their own beer etc.

If people like and wish to buy our products, they will. If they deem it too expensive or substandard, they won't. I do know, however, that the prices we charge are fair, and the mark-up is nowhere near what a lot of people would apparently expect.

All I can say is, if there really is ridiculous mark-ups to me made and an easy fortune to be had in this business, I for one am doing something seriously wrong and would love some pointers from some of the apparent experts on here please

Well said, Stu. I think there's the naive opinion among some that the majority of juice companies are making thousands of litres of liquid and rolling in the cash.

We make small batches, and we have wages, PAYE, building rent, building insurance, marketing, bottles, labels, TPD costs (per SKU, not per flavour!) and more.

What's more ridiculous is thinking that "i just say it how i see it" makes it okay to blissfully spew out incorrect figures and costs, and then argue that it's 'an opinion'. No, an opinion is where you dislike the flavour of apple when others like it, or to think we should vote for one person over another. Facts are facts; Ignorance is lazy.

 

[pfvapes]

And calling me a fucking idiot is supposed to bother me?. Besides its all irrelevant to me as i DIY your the one taking the risk. Everyone is allowed an opinion. Plus i am not the only one who thinks what i said, i just say it how i see it some won't because they don't want to upset the odd person or 2.
What happened to each to their own?

No it is not meant to bother you, it was a statement, made, in all honesty to make me feel better as i have had just about enough of *edit-removed* who know very little to nothing spouting *edit-removed* about eliquid, the TPD, and business in general.

*edit-removed*. I have no wish to quash anyone's opinions, particularly those that differ to mine, as that keep the world interesting. But to be valid in my eyes an opinion needs some substance. You base your concept of "its too expensive" on the fact YOU do not want to pay for it. That is fine, but why then have the sheer audacity to comment on the margins vendors make and then presume to pass comment on what that then means for the business? I have said before I applaud and support DIY for the very reason it saves the user significant money, its fun and rewarding. Its a great thing to do, and I help out where i can when folk have questions and concerns.

*edit-removed*

"Besides its all irrelevant to me as i DIY your the one taking the risk"

EXACTLY! im the one getting off my arse investing money into a business that may or may not work, who are you to then tell me and anyone else that starts a business I am not entitled to then reap the rewards?

*edit-removed*

without folk willing to risk (in some cases everything) the world would stop.

If my product is not good enough, if my customer service is shite, if folks really dont see the product as worth the price, then my business will fail, but that is the risk i take. If i get it right I may end up turning a profit before next year. If i get it really right, then i might buy a fucking yacht in 10 years time, and i will have damn well earned it.

 

[Simon G]

When I think about how many bottles I would have to sell just to be able to just pay the rent each month, I think you are all crazy even trying to make a living out of it. ...... but I'm glad you are.https://www.planetofthevapes.co.uk/forums/javascript:

I just can't get my head around people who think you would be raking in the money ..... and if you are then, hats off to you because you fucking deserve it as you must be making a crazy popular product.

 

[crustyfolker]

Perhaps vendors who are currently in a state of extreme stress and angst about the method they have chosen to feed and house their families are a bit touchy about being judged as "too expensive" by people who haven't really got a clue what this particular commercial industry is currently like?

Considering the outrageous costs and ever changing hoops (by that I mean new rules are appearing all the time, one particularly nasty one appeared at the end of last week, that COULD mean the juice you all assumed you could buy until the 20th may 17, from vendors who were not going to go through TPD but were just going to sell existing stocks till then, may be no longer be legally available after the 20th November 16)

Vendors are understandably on edge at the minute, I dunno - maybe they feel attacked by your horribly inaccurate assessment of what it costs to make juice on a legitimate market scale?

@ZT and any other vendor. My intention was never to put anyone out of business or upset, attack anyone in the way it may have seemed and i understand times are tough in the vaping business for sure. Times are also tough for most people and their pockets as well. Look at disabled people and their plight as an example, many of them need help with costs yet the Gov is trying their damndist to remove that help.
Now if all vendors had to publish there finances transparently through some recognised body it may well cause people to look at things in a different light.

 

[Colonelboom]

i just say it how i see it

I think that's the issue here as so far you seem rather bullish in 'calling it as you see it' despite being corrected by people that don't "see it" but actually and factually know what they are talking about.

You said there's a huge markup, plenty of people in the business put in far more detailed responses with information to the contrary to which you then said that we are all protecting profits and there's absolutely a huge markup of 12x the cost - again more people pointed out the finer details that laypeople perhaps don't ever even consider.

Regardless of what anyone tells you as a fact (and most of us try to be as open and transparent as possible) you appear to be unwilling to comprehend that you are wrong.

I asked you pages ago what kind of device and atomiser you are using, nicotine strength etc as you say you use 15ml a day. As a retailer I don't know of any one customer I have ever come across who is on the right nic strength for them with sensible power usage dialled to an atomiser that doesn't just guzzle juice for fun who is using that much so I suggest to you that you aren't perhaps using your juice wisely and of course it's going to be damn expensive in that case. I didn't get a reply and actually I was trying to offer some free impartial help in which you could help your budget too.

Rather than banging the 'I am a high volume user on a budget and as a result every juice company is ripping my eyes out, drum' you could try engaging with the knowledgable vendors and members trying to communicate with you. So far all I can see is an axe to grind and it's aimed at the very people who need to be making money at this stage in order to stay in business so you can continue to buy supplies further down the line.

 

[pfvapes]

@ZT and any other vendor. My intention was never to put anyone out of business or upset, attack anyone in the way it may have seemed and i understand times are tough in the vaping business for sure. Times are also tough for most people and their pockets as well. Look at disabled people and their plight as an example, many of them need help with costs yet the Gov is trying their damndist to remove that help.
Now if all vendors had to publish there finances transparently through some recognised body it may well cause people to look at things in a different light.

its called companies house ...

 

[Colonelboom]

@ZT
Now if all vendors had to publish there finances transparently through some recognised body it may well cause people to look at things in a different light.

eh???

That's a bit presumptious isn't it.. What business is it of anyone's who spends what and where and exactly to what end? That actually made me gulp my hand roasted coffee beans from my gold and diamond encrusted mug.

Here's some transparencyt for you. My TPD testing and submission costs currently are running at about £30,000 (and I have reduced my range down by two thirds to justify it all) , my rent and rates are £27,000 a year and it cost me £35,000 to refurbish the premises we are in as we needed more space for adequate production. I have two staff as well as myself who earn a wage better than their previous employment and that's before I have sold a bottle.

Please tell me how many bottles I have to sell this month to cover that lot before I buy in the materials.

 

[Lee]

I tried typing a long post to this thread, but my fingers are sore from the papercuts i get from counting all my cash i rake in from selling e liquid.

Fuck me this is boring now isnt it? [emoji25][emoji25][emoji25][emoji25][emoji25][emoji25][emoji25][emoji25][emoji25][emoji25][emoji25][emoji25]

 

[crustyfolker]

I think that's the issue here as so far you seem rather bullish in 'calling it as you see it' despite being corrected by people that don't "see it" but actually and factually know what they are talking about.

You said there's a huge markup, plenty of people in the business put in far more detailed responses with information to the contrary to which you then said that we are all protecting profits and there's absolutely a huge markup of 12x the cost - again more people pointed out the finer details that laypeople perhaps don't ever even consider.

Regardless of what anyone tells you as a fact (and most of us try to be as open and transparent as possible) you appear to be unwilling to comprehend that you are wrong.

I asked you pages ago what kind of device and atomiser you are using, nicotine strength etc as you say you use 15ml a day. As a retailer I don't know of any one customer I have ever come across who is on the right nic strength for them with sensible power usage dialled to an atomiser that doesn't just guzzle juice for fun who is using that much so I suggest to you that you aren't perhaps using your juice wisely and of course it's going to be damn expensive in that case. I didn't get a reply and actually I was trying to offer some free impartial help in which you could help your budget too.

Rather than banging the 'I am a high volume user on a budget and as a result every juice company is ripping my eyes out, drum' you could try engaging with the knowledgable vendors and members trying to communicate with you. So far all I can see is an axe to grind and it's aimed at the very people who need to be making money at this stage in order to stay in business so you can continue to buy supplies further down the line.

Sorry you got no reply before i was trying to leave the thread be. So my volume of liquid use. I have a few devices tanks etc. But the relevant thing for me is i was a smoker who could chainsmoke all day nesar enough, which was again costing to much and would to me seem like i have more of a problem with nicotine addiction thasn some not saying others don't struggle with nic addiction by the way just saying this about myself.. I vape 3mg as i can't get on with more throat hit. Thus vaping more often at a lower strength suits me. This is also why i DIY to keep the cost down.
I was not the only one to say eliquid was expensive to buy yet i seem to get most of the stick for it, fair enough its not like it is causing me any problem so i just let it go over my head. Which is what everyone should do but each to their own. I also think that the way this whole thing has been handled could also have a knock on affect, people read the posts and agree with one side or the other but there maybe people who see some posts and think look at how the vendor has spoken to this person just because he may be wrong?