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second hand vaping

Discussion in 'Tobacco Harm Reduction' started by dowsett, Aug 12, 2016.

  1. jaimunki

    jaimunki Achiever

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    High vg = bigger clouds less throat hit
    High pg = smaller clouds more throat hit
     
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  2. dowsett

    dowsett Postman

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  3. Beelost

    Beelost Initiate

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    what's going to be if they see me vaping in a car with a child? How much does it cost?
     
  4. speedfreek67

    speedfreek67 Achiever

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    The not smoking in cars law doesn't apply to vaping.

    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/smoking-in-vehicles

    Actually, none of the "where can I smoke?" laws apply to vaping. It is illegal to smoke in an enclosed public space, but it is not illegal to vape there. All vaping rules are purely down to the owner of the place you are vaping in, as far as I am aware.
     
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  5. vapemac

    vapemac Veteran

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    I feel your pain. My partner hates the clouds and hates the smell too. I've tried untold numbers of flavours over the last 18 months thinking they're must be something in there that she wouldn't mind the smell of but no luck so far.
     
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  6. MrDJ

    MrDJ Legend

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    this was a year old thread and back then there was talk about the banning in cars with children but it didnt materialize.
    since then there has been much research and the last one i read said there was zero effect of second hand vaping.

    also cancer research uk have this on their site saying no evidence that ecigs harm bystanders.

    research.JPG
     
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  7. scrumpox

    scrumpox Veteran

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    Fears are usually based on ignorance.
    Vape on.
     
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  8. yappycat

    yappycat Achiever

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    Vaping in cars containing kids isn't against the law, but imo you should be respectful of passengers in a car when vaping regardless. Other considerations are that vapour can affect visibility if it builds up in a confined space and build up on your windows is a pita. Also be careful when driving on bumpy roads...potholes + driptip = possible dental bills lol
    The issue of passive vaping isn't really an issue...well in my opinion it isn't even if I personally choose not to vape in confined spaces if nonsmokers, kids or pets are about.

    Sorry - I'm turning into a bloggy-bore lmao - but I wrote a piece recently about passive vaping in a vape mythbusting blog. Apologies for ny busted links n' pics - this hasn't been published yet.
    Just coz its not as harmful as passive smoking doesn't mean it's completely harmless, I pretty much think its about as harmful as breathing ambient air outside in a city but that's just my opinion - I'm not wearing the white coat ;)


    Passive vaping is as harmful as passive smoking

    For me the amount of cloud I produce while vaping is an annoyance, sadly I enjoy a good airy, but warm, direct lung hit using smooth sweet high VG juice at a moderately high wattage – when I vape indoors I feel as if I should equip the cats with hazard lights, and issue low visibility warnings. I am more conscious of my vaping ‘emissions’ indoors in a way I never was when I smoked tobacco. Even though I know it’s dumb, I’m constantly worried that people might think that I am somehow poisoning them with my ‘obnoxious’ second-hand vape.

    The anti-vaping ‘experts’ and the media, have been quick to trumpet the potential dangers of inhaling second-hand vapour. The World Health Organisation (WHO) even went so far to suggest that the use of all electronic nicotine delivery systems (ENDS) indoors should be banned by law, due to concerns that they could be as toxic to bystanders as cigarettes.

    Trouble is, when you’re vaping the cloud produced is way more visible than cigarette smoke, it also smells a whole lot better than ciggies which makes it more noticeable to other people and ironically leads to a lot more hate from those so inclined to complain about their right to breathe ‘fresh air’. This usually comes from people standing in at a bus stop, at the side of a busy road when you’ve made a conscious decision to vape 20 feet upwind of them so as not to pollute their carbon monoxide filled ‘fresh air’ with the scent of sweet apple doughnuts while you wait for the bus to arrive.

    Vapour is more visible than ciggie smoke, and therefore more annoying to some people. Does this mean that it is actually harmful in any meaningful way though?

    Well to all the haters out there I would say that just coz you can see it doesn’t mean that it is worse.​

    The chemical structure of vapour produced by e-cigarettes is very simple in comparison to smoke from cigarettes. Comprised primarily of larger molecules, vapour is easily seen, and avoided. Conversely, 80% of cigarette smoke is invisible to the naked eye and lingers longer. Seeing as cigarette smoke contains over 4,500 chemicals, many of which are irritants or toxins, of which 50+ are known to cause cancer, I’d say that cigarette smoke is far more sinister and threatening. Gimme something I can see, and waft away with a magazine, than something that is invisible and going to hang about in the room unseen for ages.

    [​IMG]

    So YAY...at least you can run away from second hand vapour, but that isn’t always a practical way to avoid the danger...hang on, what ARE the dangers of second-hand vapour anyway?



    Well, to be honest there doesn’t appear to be much danger attached to passive vaping that isn’t associated with lazy reporting and biased scientific studies. The general medical consensus is that there is little or no harm presented to others from second hand vapour at all.


    “Current state of knowledge about the chemistry of liquids and aerosols associated with electronic cigarettes indicates that there is no evidence that vaping produces inhalable exposures to contaminants of the aerosol that would warrant health concerns.” (BMC, Jan 2014)


    “There is a large body of evidence suggesting that e-cigarettes are relatively harmless to the people who use them, making claims about the dangers of second-hand exposure even more spurious — especially in well-ventilated outdoor spaces where people can easily move away from someone using the product.” (Nicotine & Tobacco Research, Dec 2013)


    When compared to second hand cigarette smoke, second hand vape is so inoffensive it is difficult to figure out why passive vaping should even be considered an issue. A dog fart is probably more toxic, and certainly smells worse.

    Screenshot_5.jpg


    The only ‘harmful’ element shared by cigarette smoke and e-cigarette vapour is the nicotine. Nicotine levels are very much lower in vape aerosol, and the actual level of threat to health presented by nicotine is very much subject to debate. Tobacco and e-juice are not the only consumables that contain nicotine – some very common foodstuffs do too, aubergines and potatoes for example, albeit in lower levels. It might also come as a surprise to learn that nicotine is believed to be helpful in the treatment of numerous medical conditions, including Alzheimer’s Disease and Attention Deficit Hyperactive Disorder (ADHD). Nicotine is the most recognizable ingredient of tobacco, regardless of the thousands of other chemicals found in cigarettes, and therefore it has become unfairly maligned, and incorrectly associated with smoking related illnesses.


    In conclusion, passive vaping as a danger to others is just another example of the general trend of demonising of vaping. Still, that is not an excuse to chuff out clouds in other folk’s air space and expect them to like it. Be considerate to others, my fellow vapers - we get enough bad press as it is.
     
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  9. scrumpox

    scrumpox Veteran

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    The debate around the relative harms is done. Non-vapers respond emotionally rather than factually and they regard it the same as smoke and refer to it as such.

    I choose to vape whilst driving, blowing it out through an open window. No visibility issue, no film on the windows and I'm adult enough to deal with the small risk of knocking my own teeth out. If you want to fret about it, that's your call. I find it remarkable, ignorant and even laughable that other road users or pedestrians would consider my vape emissions to be their concern ... purely because they can't see or choose to ignore the real dangers.

    The real issue here is unwanted pollution, of anti-social behaviour. Everyone is different regarding where they a draw line about the anti-social behaviour that they're prepared to tolerate. For example, if there's a particularly noisy group in the restaurant you're eating at ... at what point do you decide to complain, leave or even create confrontation?

    Second hand vapour isn't causing anyone any harm, that's not a matter of opinion any more. What is a matter of opinion is whether your behaviour is reasonable and if anyone else's objection to it is reasonable.

    It's all about the context isn't it? I don't regard my vaping as an unreasonable behaviour in itself so I deal with anyone choosing to object to it by asking myself - is their objection reasonable or unreasonable?
     
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  10. yappycat

    yappycat Achiever

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    I think you're spot on. Only once has someone asked me not to vape and it was my fault - I vaped in a restaurant on account of drinking too many 2-for-1 cocktails and I quite forgot myself...it was a discreet mtl vape I wasn't fogging anyone. Still, their restaurant, their policy and their objection reasonable. That's the one and only time someone has openly asked me not to do it - I dunno whether I've just not been vaping long enough, people around me don't care enough or maybe at 5'3" and 100lbs I'm simply too intimidating to confront ;) My OH is actually the one who annoys me most...he's like @vapemac's partner ;) ..always moaning about the smell! Ugh the house smells like cake...it sickens me...etc *sigh* Makes me wanna shove his face into the HUGE ashtray he has always filled with stinky ciggy butts and hold it there for a while....

    CAKE you say?! Well STITCH THIS you bleating crybaby!! :rotflmao:
     
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