MHRA regulation of electronic cigarettes announced

[Numpty]

They're taking 2 things away from me luv... jack & shit.

I'm busy trying to find a convict shirt on ebay for all the future illegal activities I could be forced into.

Found it, hope it's your size

 

[steffijade]

Found it, hope it's your size

View attachment 8555

 

[steffijade]

No I think the idea is to fight against having vaping classified as a medicinal product

and I think you do too ...

So ill state again this arguing amongst ourselves is damaging to our cause I get that you believe in your mind you believe you are just trying to spark debate in a "liberal"thinking kind of way to get people to think about what we want instead ... and if we were dealing with a "liberal" case here, against reasonable people who were just trying to understand this technology .. and put it in the best place and classify and make it safe ... what i think you are attempting would be a good thing.

However .. that isnt the case, we are dealing with an organisation which is dealing with the profit margins of people who have made millions from killing people and people who have made millions from selling medicines to the people they are killing ... this is not liberal ... its corrupt, no sensible conversation and reasonable talking is going to change the course of what these people have planned.

The time for reasonable debate is passed sadly, and the time for protest and action is upon us. its that simple.

This "in-fighting" we are experiencing in this thread is just what these people need to split and divide the vaping community something that they are going to attempt to do anyway.

I'm going to urge this all to stop, please - there .. Ive asked nicely.

I'm quite happy to stop the childishness if it's reciprocated luv... trouble is, some is having too much fun to stop.

 

[Numpty]

CHIP regulations - which put strict regulations on labeling and packaging of dangerous chemicals (nicotine and nicotine containing solutions)
Plugs and Sockets regulations - regs you have to follow if you sell anything with a plug on it (battery chargers, fwiw most chargers bundled with kits are fit only for the bin, and any plug attached to a device that isn't a 3pin UK plug that meets BS is illegal)
Weights and measures - which mean all the bottles of e-liquid you buy are overfilled
Distance selling regulations - govern rights of a customer to return anything within 7 days provided you supply suitable hard copy info at point of sale
Data Protection regulations - registration withthe ICO and regs to keep customers personal info secure
import regulations - regulations that cover importing things from outside the EU and tax and import duty you must pay as well as needing to register for an EORI
WEEE regulations - regualtions about the safe disposal of electronic equipment and batteries

Products sold in the UK must be fit for purpose there is a whole raft of consumer protection laws - Sale of Goods Act 1979 Electronic Commerce regulations 2002 and more than mean that what the vendor says is in the e-liquid must be in the e-liquid. There is also a bunch of paperwork you need to do to ensure that stuff you sell meets CE standards and a certificate for every product that you sell that someone in your company has signed off on to say that it meets the required standards.

All of the above (more or less) are enforced by trading standards. Who are mostly swamped and deal quickly with the easy stuff. No CHIP labels, not enough liquid in the bottles, no DOCs for CE marks, dodgy plugs or god awful 'travel adaptors' with illegal EU or US plugs will get you closed down on the spot. Testing that your liquid doesn't have Diacetyl, diethylene glycol or other nasties in it doesn't tend to happen. There are a lot of vendors who get their products tested voluntarily.

Over and over again we hear in the news that these devices are not regulated. They are actually pretty well regulated. It would be better if there was more liquid testing, and if Trading Standards had a lot more help in enforcing the existing regulations much better.

This is all off the top of my head there are probably some regulations I've missed.

Perfect, consolidate this into a single proposal and it will largely prove that the MHRA are not fit for purpose,
Because e-cigs/juice is not medicine it's an alternative delivery, much as a pipe or cigar is to a cigarette.
Show that a drafting of standards could be largely overseen by existing bodies who's budget increases would be substantially less than the cost to the MRSA and there might just exist the basis of a valid argument against current proposals..

 

[steffijade]

Perfect, consolidate this into a single proposal and it will largely prove that the MHRA are not fit for purpose,
Because e-cigs/juice is not medicine it's an alternative delivery, much as a pipe or cigar is to a cigarette.
Show that a drafting of standards could be largely overseen by existing bodies who's budget increases would be substantially less than the cost to the MRSA and there might just exist the basis of a valid argument against current proposals..

Didn't realise we were being dictated to by a flesh eating virus.... but actually, now you mention it.

 

[VaperCaper]

Basically everytime you buy froma UK vendor who is registered on these forums they are complying with all of those existing regulations to do with e-cigs and related stuff. Everytime you buy from fasttech or similar chinese import companies they are complying with NONE of those regulations. In the EU you have a lot of recourse against poor service from a vendor - that along with things like charging VAT is why buying from a UK vendor is lots more expensive.

There's already lots of existing regulations we have to follow. What we need is age restrictions as part of the law, and ideally a good way of getting e-liquids tested, perhaps needing to have each batch tested before sale was permitted for purity and quality (so that what it says in mg on the label is what is in the bottle and there are no bad chemicals in there) and to do that would need an improved system so that juice could be tested in a week or so for a couple hundred quid a batch at most.

We do not need over the top medicines regulation - e-cigs aren't a medicine. We don't need lumping in with tobacco control cos e-cigs don't contain tobacco. We do need a new category for these products and appropriate legislation. If we want these things then we do need to fight for them, and not fight each other in the process.

 

[ZT]

Basically everytime you buy froma UK vendor who is registered on these forums they are complying with all of those existing regulations to do with e-cigs and related stuff. Everytime you buy from fasttech or similar chinese import companies they are complying with NONE of those regulations. In the EU you have a lot of recourse against poor service from a vendor - that along with things like charging VAT is why buying from a UK vendor is lots more expensive.

There's already lots of existing regulations we have to follow. What we need is age restrictions as part of the law, and ideally a good way of getting e-liquids tested, perhaps needing to have each batch tested before sale was permitted for purity and quality (so that what it says in mg on the label is what is in the bottle and there are no bad chemicals in there) and to do that would need an improved system so that juice could be tested in a week or so for a couple hundred quid a batch at most.

We do not need over the top medicines regulation - e-cigs aren't a medicine. We don't need lumping in with tobacco control cos e-cigs don't contain tobacco. We do need a new category for these products and appropriate legislation. If we want these things then we do need to fight for them, and not fight each other in the process.

A far more eloquent way of putting across what I was trying to put across

which is why I tend to steer clear of political debate ... Im not built for it ... I just get wound up and want to twat everyone.

 

[Numpty]

I'm quite happy to stop the childishness if it's reciprocated luv... trouble is, some is having too much fun to stop.

I done my best to stay on topic but you refused to join or walk away, what can one do...
This is no fun at all for me, you get to hunt out all the witty pictures and do some funny name calling whereas I have to try and continue my exploration of what is and what could be...

Despite being totally pro vaping, shocked and horrified by the retarded decisions of our glorious leaders and the fact that just saying no we don't want this will have zero effect on the outcome other than to waste time and energy better used to construct something better, or at least offer suggestions to those that know how, I'm accused of being a troll possibly pro MHRA and constantly misunderstood.

Loved the last Troll picture, I'm guessing Donald Sutherland - Invasion of the body Snatchers. Excellent choice.

 

[AndyC1971]

https://gcn.civilservice.gov.uk/wp-...years_of_drink_drive_communications_saved.pdf

 

[VaperCaper]

Perfect, consolidate this into a single proposal and it will largely prove that the MHRA are not fit for purpose,
Because e-cigs/juice is not medicine it's an alternative delivery, much as a pipe or cigar is to a cigarette.
Show that a drafting of standards could be largely overseen by existing bodies who's budget increases would be substantially less than the cost to the MRSA and there might just exist the basis of a valid argument against current proposals..

Already been done - ECITA have been arguing that for ages. there was a consultation back in 2010(?) where MHRA asked for input on how best to regulate e-cigs they got all of that and more besides and despite the fact the there were hundreds of responses to the consultation and six (yes 6) responses pushed for full medical regulation, well you see where there are now. Medical regulation doesn't incur cost to the MHRA they would stand to receive £100 000's in licence fees for each company that applies per product, a good chunk of which they'd get to keep as profit.

This is all just smoke though - they have said that they aren't going to do anything until the EU TPD stuff is decided and IF EU decides that e-cigs are medical devices THEN they wil regulate as they have outlined. It's taken them years to get to this point and they haven't taken any notice of the good science they've been presented with or arguments from public health people, or people like Clive Bates, or ECITA they've just done what the people that pay their wages told them to do.

"It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it."
- Upton Sinclair

The best way to defeat all this crap is stop the TPD from passing in the EU. If that fails the only recourse is to get it overturned in the courts.