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Have we lost?

Discussion in 'Health and Legal Information' started by phiuch, Jun 28, 2014.

  1. phiuch

    phiuch Postman

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    I've been trying to keep up with things on the eu regs involving the restriction of vaping. All I am to find, that is recent, is bad news. Am I right in thinking that the only things that will be available are the cig a likes come 2017? Is there anything that can be done about it. I'm trying to get some places to have efvi dodo boxes. Am I too late. Anyone with more of a finger on the pulse is appreciate any information. I've written to every mep I could with no response. I really want to do everything I can to stop this obvious corruption but I want to know am I flogging a dead horse?

    Sent from my SM-T310 using Planet of the Vapes mobile app
     
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  3. cheersm8

    cheersm8 Achiever

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    Regardless of the outcome of any vaping related legislation, either past, present or future, the following will still be freely available - stainless steel, in any shape or form, kanthal wire,of any length or gauge, rechargeable batteries,of all types, and their relevant chargers, silica wick,cotton wool, Propylene Glycol, vegetable glycerine, flavourings, 'base' nicotine (although this may have limitations with regard to nicotine content), plastic boxes, of any size or shape, electronic switch components and voltage/wattage regulatory pcb's and 'chips', o-rings, insulating materials, screws,grub screws and any other fixing/retaining devices, solder, pyrex glass, in any shape or form, pmma, in any shape or form, and any other manufactured component that can be, and already is,used in the construction of a vaping device.
    Also, regardless of the outcome of any vaping related legislation, The UK Police Force and criminal investigation bodies, will never create a section of officers known as 'vaping police'.
    Legislative e-cig related restrictions, both real and imaginary, will, imo be justifiably contested and over ruled, and also prove to be unmanageable, unworkable, and fall foul of existing human rights, and 'freedom' legislation.
    No amount of research,statistics,legislation, and/or lobbying, has halted the sale of tobacco, and is not, in the foreseeable future, ever likely to, so to imagine that vaping will ever be legislatively restricted beyond the measures already in place for tobacco, is ludicrous. In an age of tight budgets and very restricted funding, there are far more important health related issues to address than vaping.
    IMO, the 'over 18' rule is about all that the vaping world will ever likely get lumbered with, along with the possible restrictions on the sale of e-liquid quantities and nicotine strengths.
    Silly, unsubstantiated, anti vaping news articles, will, of course, gain attention from us, as vapers,because they are pertinent to our hobby, and create an emotional response, but the reality is that those same articles, are very soon 'old news' and forgotten by the majority of the general public.

    To answer the question "Have we lost?" , well, speaking for myself only, no, we haven't lost, but if we carry on bringing unnecessary politics into our hobby by magnifying garbage and over reacting to inane media 'smear campaigns' we are not doing ourselves many favours. It's only vaping ffs, not world domination.
     
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  4. phiuch

    phiuch Postman

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    That's alot of words to say nothing at all. I was asking where we stood politically and what, if anything, I could do to help. I didn't make this political but it has been made that way for us. Please don't treat me like a child or a fool for I am neither

    Sent from my GT-I9505 using Planet of the Vapes mobile app
     
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  6. vaporsizer

    vaporsizer Veteran

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    You sound like you're doing you bit mate & that's all that matters, good for you. The EFVI has a few months to go yet.
     
  7. oldhippydude

    oldhippydude Veteran

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    Keep flogging the dead horse someone has to.I have flogged a few myself over the years.
    Your focus would perhaps be better focused on MPs rather than MEPs.Is Europe not done and dusted while the details have to be worked out at Westminster.
    The lack of engagement with your post says a lot to answer your question.

    Vapers are too small in numbers and even if we were fully engaged in fighting restrictions little regard will be payed by the powers that be.The tobacco lobby,big pharma,and the health lobby are ranged against us as are most of the media.

    We win and they loose when we ignore their laws.
     
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  8. cheersm8

    cheersm8 Achiever

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    Steady on phiuch My reply was not a personal attack upon yourself or your ideals. It was an expression of what the current vaping hullabaloo means to me, and my thoughts on the possible outcome, and the feasabilty of legislative restrictions further down the line.

    ps, there is not one Politician in the country that gives vaping a second thought as a vote winner. and there is not an mp or mep in the country that will ever bother to mention their view on vaping in their door to door elective canvassing leaflets. Vaping issues are only important to us, as vapers, and to those against it. The vast majority of the UK population fall outside of those criteria,and to them, vaping and e-cig issues mean nothing.
     
    #6 cheersm8, Jun 28, 2014
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2014
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  9. Chegs

    Chegs Veteran

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    My take is simple, fuck them and their unworkable laws. If I need to, I'll go to prison for my ideals. The chances of me going to prison are about the same as winning the lottery without a ticket. The ones that will suffer as a result of regulation beyond 18 plus only are the smokers of the future as they'll never get the chance to experience what we have now. :mad:

    Sent by lazer from just north of the world's largest nuclear dustbin
     
  10. junglist

    junglist Administrator Staff Member

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    phiuch - like cheersm8 said, no-one was treating you like a child.

    Nothing has been lost and no it won't just be cig-a-likes available when the new legislation is slated to be brought in in 2016.

    Have a look at this for starters:
    Web Filter

    There is going to be more stringent testing of the components in eliquids and those containing over 20mg/ml will no longer be classed as consumer products.

    I haven't seen anything that says what the eliquid tests will comprise of yet so how damaging this will be to the industry is unclear. If it means tens of thousands for small eliquid providers to get their products tested then the overheads may be too much for them to continue. But from what I have seen, including a letter from my MP, they government in the UK recognises the number of small business in the industry and it doesn't want to stifle it. What a government says and what it does isn't always the same thing so all we can do is watch what happens over the next year to eighteen months as see what they come up with.

    I think everyone in the industry recognises that the number one priority is health and that regulation, as long as not overly complex or costly, is welcomed especially if it means that eliquids can be relied upon to be free of products that may be more detrimental to health than others.

    I think that the EFVI campaign is worth lending your support to but some of the language they use can be a bit dramatic and can give a false sense as to what is actually proposed.
     
  11. anthonyb

    anthonyb Achiever

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    As I understand it at the moment.
    We have the EU legislation guidelines, to be implemented by 2016. It's down to each countries government to implement these guidelines.

    I have not come across anything yet, that indicates what the UK government will do. I think it's safe to say, that they will be influenced, mainly by those that deal with public health. Unfortunately, you have the likes of The WHO, BMA and MHRA against us/ecigs.
    But you have the likes of ASHuk, the NHS stop smoking service and more and more GPs that are for the use of ecigs. With many now acknowledging that 2nd and 3rd generation ecigs are a lot more effective than lookylikes and NRT. Although the later still have their part to play.
    The EU is done and dusted for now. EFVI is probably the last hope with them. The main fight now is with our own health "experts" and government. To try and keep something that works reasonably well. Not just for us vapers, but for those that may come after us.

    As for those like Glantz and McGhee, they are now getting flamed by people with a lot higher standing than us users.
    The fight goes on by more people of standing, than most know about.

    This recent quote from Dr. Christian Jessen (as seen on embarrassing bodies)
    Quote from Louise Ross. Head of Leicester stop smoking service. On 20/06/14
    And there's many more just like it.
    There's even a GP somewhere in the country, that has opened his own B&M next to the surgery. (or close by).

    So have we lost?
    No. The tide is turning slowly.
     
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  12. junglist

    junglist Administrator Staff Member

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    Chegs - it looks like you are only likely to be affected if you are doing eliquids stronger than 20mg. If you are a high nic user then you will have plenty of time to source and freeze a good few litres of nic concentrate :D

    I won't say too much more about ways that could be got around the proposed laws but what they are talking about is quite unworkable in some aspects and the joy is that their regulations take so long to change that the vaping community may well be able to run rings around them...

    As I said in the other post, to a certain extent we should welcome regulation if it makes vaping safer for all.
     

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