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EU Proposes Effective Ban on E-Cigarette Cartridges/Eliquid

Have you contacted your MP/MEP's?

  • Yes I have and they have responded

    Votes: 8 53.3%
  • Yes I have and they have not responded

    Votes: 1 6.7%
  • No, but I plan to.

    Votes: 3 20.0%
  • No and I do not plan to.

    Votes: 1 6.7%
  • Yes I have but only some have replied

    Votes: 2 13.3%
  • Other

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    15
Today I smoked a few!
I had managed to get down to one in the morning.
The last time I did that was when the TV news was full of a new Stop Smoking campaign.
When I was failing badly on NRT I smoked more than ever before so I have weird psycology, the don't do what you're told' type.
 
Today I smoked a few!
I had managed to get down to one in the morning.
The last time I did that was when the TV news was full of a new Stop Smoking campaign.
When I was failing badly on NRT I smoked more than ever before so I have weird psycology, the don't do what you're told' type.
Don't give up AnnaLaw we're not beaten yet :)
 
I've just sent a letter to my MEPs using http://www.writetothem.com/. If anybody wants to use it as a guide or make it better, feel free to do so.

I've copy/pasted in red. One of my MEPs is Nigel Farage.

I am writing to you regarding the new revised European Tobacco Directive, specifically those parts relating to Electronic Cigarettes.

I do not know the extent of your knowledge of this new method of nicotine delivery, but as somebody who smoked 40 cigarettes a day and more for over 50 years and was always unable to quit using any approved medical methods, I ask you to vote against this part of the directive, which, if it becomes law, will be responsible for illness and death in many people who no longer smoke thanks to this invention by a Chinese pharmaceutical company that then became the first company to sell these devices.

Electronic cigarettes do not appeal to children and young people, they are attracted to tobacco. Users of electronic cigarettes are long-term smokers who have been unable to quit.
Both myself and a number of people I know have stopped smoking and are classed as non-smokers by our doctors because we inhale flavoured vapour with a low quantity of nicotine. The majority of us either cannot or have no desire to give up nicotine and have failed in all efforts using nicotine replacement therapy and/or other 'stop smoking' drugs.

The amount of nicotine proposed as the maximum permitted in this directive would be useless for the majority of electronic cigarette users. Few can use less than 12 mg/ml concentration without smoking, the majority use 18mg/ml, and a few need as much as 24mg/ml in order not to return to smoking.

It is true that nicotine is dangerous but the quantity of nicotine used by us is less dangerous than that in a pack of 20 cigarettes if they are eaten.

Electronic cigarettes do not contain the 4000+ toxins in tobacco smoke, very little nicotine is released into the atmosphere, so we no longer smell of smoke or endanger children and non-smokers with second-hand smoke.
In the UK this industry is already tightly regulated under Health and Safety and Trading Standards laws. The liquid for these electronic cigarettes not sold in pre-filled cartridges must be CHIP compliant, and is batch-tested for purity by independent laboratories.

The evidence, if you ignore research sponsored by the pharmaceutical industry, specifically the manufacturers of 'quit smoking' NRT and pills, research made by an industry concerned that it will lose the profits it makes from repeated unsuccessful attempts to stop smoking (I believe that the failure rate is 95%), shows that electronic cigarettes are far less harmful than smoking, possibly having only 1% of the danger, as much as drinking coffee.

I do know that if this directive is passed and implemented as it stands now, millions of people throughout Europe and hundreds of thousands of people in the UK, will return to smoking and probably cost the NHS a considerable amount of money treating smoking-related diseases, as well as causing many more smoking-related deaths.

There is also a growing European and UK industry in the manufacture and sale of the liquid for electronic cigarettes and the sale of the devices used. This is a young and growing industry, employing more people every year as more smokers learn of electronic cigarettes and give up smoking successfully by using them instead.

The maximum nicotine permitted in this directive, of 4 mg, assuming that is 4 mg/ml as the strength is measured for electronic cigarettes, would be completely ineffective for 99% of those who use them.

If this directive is passed and adopted by the UK, then the EU will be responsible for the ill-health and deaths of millions throughout the EU, the number of smokers will increase as in most of the UK those who have successfully converted completely to electronic cigarettes, and no young people will be affected as young people have no interest in these devices. I would in fact argue that if a teenager did decide to use nicotine it would be far safer than smoking, although I know of no young person who has started with electronic cigarettes. According to a poll of those who have swapped cigarettes for electronic ones, which we do not like to call cigarettes, the average age is between 30 and 50, the youngest being in their early 20s, the oldest over 70. In fact I know of a few people in their 80s whose health has improved thanks to these devices and the nicotine they use.

The majority of those who use 'personal vapourisers' (the term preferred to 'electronic cigarette') no longer like the taste of tobacco. The liquid used in these are to appeal to adults, not to children. Also in the UK the trade follows the law of not selling to under 18s, although that is harder to police until they are available in every high street and we no longer need to use online vendors.

I ask you all, for the sake of the health of Britons if for no other reason, to oppose this ban on effective electronic cigarettes.
 
I've just sent a letter to my MEPs using http://www.writetothem.com/. If anybody wants to use it as a guide or make it better, feel free to do so.

I've copy/pasted in red. One of my MEPs is Nigel Farage.

I am writing to you regarding the new revised European Tobacco Directive, specifically those parts relating to Electronic Cigarettes.

I do not know the extent of your knowledge of this new method of nicotine delivery, but as somebody who smoked 40 cigarettes a day and more for over 50 years and was always unable to quit using any approved medical methods, I ask you to vote against this part of the directive, which, if it becomes law, will be responsible for illness and death in many people who no longer smoke thanks to this invention by a Chinese pharmaceutical company that then became the first company to sell these devices.

Electronic cigarettes do not appeal to children and young people, they are attracted to tobacco. Users of electronic cigarettes are long-term smokers who have been unable to quit.
Both myself and a number of people I know have stopped smoking and are classed as non-smokers by our doctors because we inhale flavoured vapour with a low quantity of nicotine. The majority of us either cannot or have no desire to give up nicotine and have failed in all efforts using nicotine replacement therapy and/or other 'stop smoking' drugs.

The amount of nicotine proposed as the maximum permitted in this directive would be useless for the majority of electronic cigarette users. Few can use less than 12 mg/ml concentration without smoking, the majority use 18mg/ml, and a few need as much as 24mg/ml in order not to return to smoking.

It is true that nicotine is dangerous but the quantity of nicotine used by us is less dangerous than that in a pack of 20 cigarettes if they are eaten.

Electronic cigarettes do not contain the 4000+ toxins in tobacco smoke, very little nicotine is released into the atmosphere, so we no longer smell of smoke or endanger children and non-smokers with second-hand smoke.
In the UK this industry is already tightly regulated under Health and Safety and Trading Standards laws. The liquid for these electronic cigarettes not sold in pre-filled cartridges must be CHIP compliant, and is batch-tested for purity by independent laboratories.

The evidence, if you ignore research sponsored by the pharmaceutical industry, specifically the manufacturers of 'quit smoking' NRT and pills, research made by an industry concerned that it will lose the profits it makes from repeated unsuccessful attempts to stop smoking (I believe that the failure rate is 95%), shows that electronic cigarettes are far less harmful than smoking, possibly having only 1% of the danger, as much as drinking coffee.

I do know that if this directive is passed and implemented as it stands now, millions of people throughout Europe and hundreds of thousands of people in the UK, will return to smoking and probably cost the NHS a considerable amount of money treating smoking-related diseases, as well as causing many more smoking-related deaths.

There is also a growing European and UK industry in the manufacture and sale of the liquid for electronic cigarettes and the sale of the devices used. This is a young and growing industry, employing more people every year as more smokers learn of electronic cigarettes and give up smoking successfully by using them instead.

The maximum nicotine permitted in this directive, of 4 mg, assuming that is 4 mg/ml as the strength is measured for electronic cigarettes, would be completely ineffective for 99% of those who use them.

If this directive is passed and adopted by the UK, then the EU will be responsible for the ill-health and deaths of millions throughout the EU, the number of smokers will increase as in most of the UK those who have successfully converted completely to electronic cigarettes, and no young people will be affected as young people have no interest in these devices. I would in fact argue that if a teenager did decide to use nicotine it would be far safer than smoking, although I know of no young person who has started with electronic cigarettes. According to a poll of those who have swapped cigarettes for electronic ones, which we do not like to call cigarettes, the average age is between 30 and 50, the youngest being in their early 20s, the oldest over 70. In fact I know of a few people in their 80s whose health has improved thanks to these devices and the nicotine they use.

The majority of those who use 'personal vapourisers' (the term preferred to 'electronic cigarette') no longer like the taste of tobacco. The liquid used in these are to appeal to adults, not to children. Also in the UK the trade follows the law of not selling to under 18s, although that is harder to police until they are available in every high street and we no longer need to use online vendors.

I ask you all, for the sake of the health of Britons if for no other reason, to oppose this ban on effective electronic cigarettes.

Brilliant and done, to everyone of my MEP's
 
"What concerns me is the thinking behind this. Does restricting nicotine density to 4 mg necessarily restrict your nicotine intake?"

Absolutely, it makes no sense. By allowing it be legal they are saying it is not harmful enough to ban, so why restrict it to an extent where it is useless? I suspect the answer is politics.
 
I have just re-jigged my letter to send to my MP, with some small additions and changes to make it a UK issue..
I have only received 'out of office' replies from my MEPs but I live in a Conservative area, not a Lib-Dem one.

I'll copy this new version here and in other forums, in red again.

Dear
I am writing to you regarding the new revised European Tobacco Directive, specifically those parts relating to Electronic Cigarettes and asking the UK government not to implement this part of the Directive.

I do not know the extent of your knowledge of this new method of nicotine delivery, but as somebody who smoked 40 cigarettes a day and more for over 50 years and was always unable to quit using any approved medical methods, I ask you to oppose the implementation of this part of the Directive, which, if it becomes law, will be responsible for illness and death in many people who no longer smoke thanks to this invention by a Chinese pharmaceutical company that then became the first company to sell these devices.

Electronic cigarettes do not appeal to children and young people, who are attracted to tobacco. Users of electronic cigarettes are long-term smokers who have been unable to quit.
Both myself and a number of people I know have stopped smoking and are classed as non-smokers by our doctors because we inhale flavoured vapour that contains nicotine. The majority of us either cannot or have no desire to give up nicotine and have failed in all efforts using nicotine replacement therapy and/or other 'stop smoking' drugs.

The amount of nicotine proposed as the maximum permitted in this directive would be useless for the majority of electronic cigarette users. Few can use less than 12 mg/ml concentration without smoking, the majority use 18mg/ml, and a few need as much as 24mg/ml in order not to return to smoking. The maximum permitted to be sold without a medicines license in the EU Directive would only appeal to non-smokers, as nicotine content permitted would be zero or almost so, this amount being calculated as having little or no effect on a non-smoker.

It is true that nicotine is dangerous but the quantity of nicotine used by us is less dangerous than that in a pack of 20 cigarettes if they are eaten and certainly far less dangerous than NRT products in the hands of children.

Electronic cigarettes do not contain the 4000+ toxins in tobacco smoke, very little nicotine is released into the atmosphere, so we no longer smell of smoke or endanger children and non-smokers with second-hand smoke.
In the UK this industry is already tightly regulated under Health and Safety and Trading Standards laws. The liquid for these electronic cigarettes not sold in pre-filled cartridges must be CHIP compliant, all have appropriate heatth warnings and it is batch-tested for purity by independent laboratories.

Unbiased evidence shows that electronic cigarettes are far less harmful than smoking, possibly having only 1% of the danger, as much as drinking coffee, but the benefit is enormous in tobacco harm reduction.

I do know that if this directive is passed and implemented as it stands now, millions of people throughout Europe and hundreds of thousands of people in the UK, will return to smoking and probably cost the NHS a considerable amount of money treating smoking-related diseases, as well as causing many more smoking-related deaths. Therefore I beg you to do all you can to prevent this draconian attack on UK citizens who have given up smoking or are likely to do so in the future by using electronic cigarettes. Vaping, as we call it, is not smoking. True, the nicotine is extracted from tobacco leaves in the same way as it is for NRT, but the same nicotine can be bought at any chemists shop, using methods and flavours that have failed many times for those who could only stop smoking with this method. These devices and the nicotine used with them is intended to reduce harm in those who are unable to quit, not to be used as a quitting method, although some have successfully stopped smoking using them.

There is also a growing European and UK industry in the manufacture and sale of the liquid for electronic cigarettes and the sale of the devices used. This is a young and growing industry, employing more people every year as more smokers learn of electronic cigarettes and give up smoking successfully by using them instead. Pharmaceutical grade nicotine is now produced in the UK and UK manufacturers and vendors would be forced out of business, creating more unemployment and cutting off a new British industry. This industry is so young that the present British companies cannot afford to obtain a medicines license yet, only the big tobacco companies have sufficient money.

The maximum nicotine permitted in this directive, of 4 mg, assuming that is 4 mg/ml as the strength is measured for electronic cigarettes, would be completely ineffective for 99% of those who use them.

If this directive is passed and adopted by the UK, then the EU will be responsible for the ill-health and deaths of millions throughout the EU, the number of smokers will increase as in most of the UK those who have successfully converted completely to electronic cigarettes are as healthy as non-smokers, and no young people will be affected as young people have no interest in these devices. I would in fact argue that if a teenager did decide to use nicotine it would be far safer than smoking, although I know of no young person who has started with electronic cigarettes. According to a poll of those who have swapped cigarettes for electronic ones, which we do not like to call cigarettes, the average age is between 30 and 50, the youngest being in their early 20s, the oldest over 70. In fact I know of a few people in their 80s whose health has improved thanks to these devices and the nicotine they use.

The majority of those who use 'personal vapourisers' (the term preferred to 'electronic cigarettes') no longer like the taste of tobacco. The liquid used in these are to appeal to adults, not to children. Also in the UK the trade follows the law of not selling to under 18s, although that is harder to police until they are available in every high street and we no longer need to use online vendors.

I ask you, for the sake of the health of Britons if for no other reason, to oppose this ban on effective electronic cigarettes in the UK. The government can tax them although I find it hard to imagine a 'sin tax' on something that is relatively harmless compared to tobacco.

The number of people who switch from tobacco to electronic cigarettes is increasing exponentially. The people who switch, from tobacco is increasing every day. It is not easy for most and requires will-power, but is do-able for many who continue smoking even after their health is so affected that they have poor quality of life.
These devices were first developed by a Chinese chemist working for a Chinese pharmaceutical company, to help people stop smoking. The electronic cigarette industry has never attempted to obtain a medicines license because of the cost and also because consumers do not want to take a medicine or be classed as smokers. We do not smoke, no smoke exists and no tobacco burnt.

Although there may be poor regulation of e-cigarette liquid in some EU countries this is not the case in the UK. The nicotine used is pharmaceutical grade.
Please investigate and take up this matter, because if the EU Tobacco Directive becomes law in its entirety in the UK many ex-smokers will become smokers again and many who would stop smoking will be unable to do so.
This part of the Directive would be the equivalent of a death sentence to British vapers, a number of whom live in this constituency.


Yours sincerely,
 
"What concerns me is the thinking behind this. Does restricting nicotine density to 4 mg necessarily restrict your nicotine intake?"

Absolutely, it makes no sense. By allowing it be legal they are saying it is not harmful enough to ban, so why restrict it to an extent where it is useless? I suspect the answer is politics.

They allow sale of no-nic and so little it would be useless for anything but, just maybe, giving a taster of what it's like to a non-smoker.

With Intellicig now owned by Big Tobacco, they want it regulated as a medical device. That way they get all the market because it would take several more years at least before the industry has the money to fund testing to that level. Unfortunately most of us are 'enthusiasts' who don't want Intellicig or BAT cigalikes.

The letter I wrote and posted can be used or edited by anybody who wishes to post it elsewhere or use it in their own letters.

We need to start doing something right now, all vapers and even non-vapers, all together.

Maybe I'm paranoid but the time-frame allows Big Tobacco to get the medicines license.
Maybe telling the ANTZ that Big Tobacco loves this part of the directive would get some on our side? They maybe hate tobacco companies more than they hate nicotine?
 
Last edited:
I have just re-jigged my letter to send to my MP, with some small additions and changes to make it a UK issue..
I have only received 'out of office' replies from my MEPs but I live in a Conservative area, not a Lib-Dem one.

I'll copy this new version here and in other forums, in red again.

Dear
I am writing to you regarding the new revised European Tobacco Directive, specifically those parts relating to Electronic Cigarettes and asking the UK government not to implement this part of the Directive.

I do not know the extent of your knowledge of this new method of nicotine delivery, but as somebody who smoked 40 cigarettes a day and more for over 50 years and was always unable to quit using any approved medical methods, I ask you to oppose the implementation of this part of the Directive, which, if it becomes law, will be responsible for illness and death in many people who no longer smoke thanks to this invention by a Chinese pharmaceutical company that then became the first company to sell these devices.

Electronic cigarettes do not appeal to children and young people, who are attracted to tobacco. Users of electronic cigarettes are long-term smokers who have been unable to quit.
Both myself and a number of people I know have stopped smoking and are classed as non-smokers by our doctors because we inhale flavoured vapour that contains nicotine. The majority of us either cannot or have no desire to give up nicotine and have failed in all efforts using nicotine replacement therapy and/or other 'stop smoking' drugs.

The amount of nicotine proposed as the maximum permitted in this directive would be useless for the majority of electronic cigarette users. Few can use less than 12 mg/ml concentration without smoking, the majority use 18mg/ml, and a few need as much as 24mg/ml in order not to return to smoking. The maximum permitted to be sold without a medicines license in the EU Directive would only appeal to non-smokers, as nicotine content permitted would be zero or almost so, this amount being calculated as having little or no effect on a non-smoker.

It is true that nicotine is dangerous but the quantity of nicotine used by us is less dangerous than that in a pack of 20 cigarettes if they are eaten and certainly far less dangerous than NRT products in the hands of children.

Electronic cigarettes do not contain the 4000+ toxins in tobacco smoke, very little nicotine is released into the atmosphere, so we no longer smell of smoke or endanger children and non-smokers with second-hand smoke.
In the UK this industry is already tightly regulated under Health and Safety and Trading Standards laws. The liquid for these electronic cigarettes not sold in pre-filled cartridges must be CHIP compliant, all have appropriate heatth warnings and it is batch-tested for purity by independent laboratories.

Unbiased evidence shows that electronic cigarettes are far less harmful than smoking, possibly having only 1% of the danger, as much as drinking coffee, but the benefit is enormous in tobacco harm reduction.

I do know that if this directive is passed and implemented as it stands now, millions of people throughout Europe and hundreds of thousands of people in the UK, will return to smoking and probably cost the NHS a considerable amount of money treating smoking-related diseases, as well as causing many more smoking-related deaths. Therefore I beg you to do all you can to prevent this draconian attack on UK citizens who have given up smoking or are likely to do so in the future by using electronic cigarettes. Vaping, as we call it, is not smoking. True, the nicotine is extracted from tobacco leaves in the same way as it is for NRT, but the same nicotine can be bought at any chemists shop, using methods and flavours that have failed many times for those who could only stop smoking with this method. These devices and the nicotine used with them is intended to reduce harm in those who are unable to quit, not to be used as a quitting method, although some have successfully stopped smoking using them.

There is also a growing European and UK industry in the manufacture and sale of the liquid for electronic cigarettes and the sale of the devices used. This is a young and growing industry, employing more people every year as more smokers learn of electronic cigarettes and give up smoking successfully by using them instead. Pharmaceutical grade nicotine is now produced in the UK and UK manufacturers and vendors would be forced out of business, creating more unemployment and cutting off a new British industry. This industry is so young that the present British companies cannot afford to obtain a medicines license yet, only the big tobacco companies have sufficient money.

The maximum nicotine permitted in this directive, of 4 mg, assuming that is 4 mg/ml as the strength is measured for electronic cigarettes, would be completely ineffective for 99% of those who use them.

If this directive is passed and adopted by the UK, then the EU will be responsible for the ill-health and deaths of millions throughout the EU, the number of smokers will increase as in most of the UK those who have successfully converted completely to electronic cigarettes are as healthy as non-smokers, and no young people will be affected as young people have no interest in these devices. I would in fact argue that if a teenager did decide to use nicotine it would be far safer than smoking, although I know of no young person who has started with electronic cigarettes. According to a poll of those who have swapped cigarettes for electronic ones, which we do not like to call cigarettes, the average age is between 30 and 50, the youngest being in their early 20s, the oldest over 70. In fact I know of a few people in their 80s whose health has improved thanks to these devices and the nicotine they use.

The majority of those who use 'personal vapourisers' (the term preferred to 'electronic cigarettes') no longer like the taste of tobacco. The liquid used in these are to appeal to adults, not to children. Also in the UK the trade follows the law of not selling to under 18s, although that is harder to police until they are available in every high street and we no longer need to use online vendors.

I ask you, for the sake of the health of Britons if for no other reason, to oppose this ban on effective electronic cigarettes in the UK. The government can tax them although I find it hard to imagine a 'sin tax' on something that is relatively harmless compared to tobacco.

The number of people who switch from tobacco to electronic cigarettes is increasing exponentially. The people who switch, from tobacco is increasing every day. It is not easy for most and requires will-power, but is do-able for many who continue smoking even after their health is so affected that they have poor quality of life.
These devices were first developed by a Chinese chemist working for a Chinese pharmaceutical company, to help people stop smoking. The electronic cigarette industry has never attempted to obtain a medicines license because of the cost and also because consumers do not want to take a medicine or be classed as smokers. We do not smoke, no smoke exists and no tobacco burnt.

Although there may be poor regulation of e-cigarette liquid in some EU countries this is not the case in the UK. The nicotine used is pharmaceutical grade.
Please investigate and take up this matter, because if the EU Tobacco Directive becomes law in its entirety in the UK many ex-smokers will become smokers again and many who would stop smoking will be unable to do so.
This part of the Directive would be the equivalent of a death sentence to British vapers, a number of whom live in this constituency.


Yours sincerely,
Copied will be in an email shortly :)
 
I have put up a forum Announcement here This is on the top of every forum on the PoTV site :D I will also make it a notice!
 
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