Manabush Powwow Sauce...vaper's tongue?

[stevoknevo]

But.......he did blag it to a certain extent....folks ordered their juice, expecting the same as normal...some seasoned manabush connoisseurs, have indeed commented, that they questioned their wicking methods or tanks etc...even vapers tongue as in the OP...then and only then, were most folks made aware of the situation of a reform of some of the range.

Sorry I know this is going to be unpopular reading for many...but surely Im not the only person to think, hang on a minute...perhaps if we were aware of a change, we could have been prepared for said change, for the better, or indifferent, either way..prepared.

Edit: I know how stressful all this must have been for the company, and ZT is a good egg, in time this will be fk all really in the grand scheme of things compared to real world problems.
I also expect some grief...well probably lots of grief really.....and this may be a post to bring in an unlike button

I agree with you @Rickster but I went in to this eyes open, paid my money and took the gamble, others didn't get that choice so if I have to level any criticism on @ZT it is that he could have announced the changeover to V2 sooner. I had a discussion with a fellow ape today who felt let down at not knowing there was a reformulation and had stocked up on shortfills prior.

People, on the whole, don't like change and their is change here - having tested the v2 Nokomis and Pow wow again today, I can see what Martyn has tried to achieve with the reformulation. I found 2 x 10ml bottles in my holdall today that I thought I had lost, 1 x pow wow and 1 x chiri - oh the dance I done There was a few toots of PowWow v2 in the Snappy so vaped that, rewicked and fired in to v1 - I'm getting the V2 now, it's just the aftertaste is all, inhale/exhale are excellent. Then went on to Chiri v1 and immediately noticed a similarity to the v2 Powwow/Nokomis - interesting? Need to try the rest of the range!

Anyhow, Martyn done what is right for the best for us ultimately, we might not all agree on the minutiae of how it has all come to pass, but we still have Manabush-Spiritwalker-Bunkr in the game, and for that we should be grateful. Even the mighty Irn Bru had to reformulate recently, to much gnashing of teeth may I add!

Due to my comments on this thread, Martyn PM'd me and offered to swap out my shortfills for something else in the range, I declined his very generous offer as I said above about eyes open, but that is the level of detail the guy puts in to his customer service and why I will always proudly wear my Manabush tshirts and be a Manabush customer

 

[Jon The Vape]

But.......he did blag it to a certain extent....folks ordered their juice, expecting the same as normal...some seasoned manabush connoisseurs, have indeed commented, that they questioned their wicking methods or tanks etc...even vapers tongue as in the OP...then and only then, were most folks made aware of the situation of a reform of some of the range.

Sorry I know this is going to be unpopular reading for many...but surely Im not the only person to think, hang on a minute...perhaps if we were aware of a change, we could have been prepared for said change, for the better, or indifferent, either way..prepared.

Edit: I know how stressful all this must have been for the company, and ZT is a good egg, in time this will be fk all really in the grand scheme of things compared to real world problems.
I also expect some grief...well probably lots of grief really.....and this may be a post to bring in an unlike button

Correct me if I'm wrong but what started this was the OP received one delivery and raised the question about the batch being off. Within a very short time ZT explained the situation, there wasn't a stream of hundreds saying they all had got a bad batch.
There was no concealment or cover up.

 

[Sprite71]

A little update ...

For starters this is just MY experience

I feel that I have mis sold myself. I did say I was fussy with liquids... I’m not. What I meant was I cannot tolerate many liquids, as in I have an intolerance. They may cause me burning eyes, dry mouth, dry nose, palpitations, stomach upsets ... that’s what I’m aware of. So when I said I am dreading trying v2, I really didn’t mean I am dreading a slight change in flavour or even a big change in flavour, I am worried about the chemical changes and whether I can tolerate them. I am not throwing my toys out of my pram over a ‘slight’ flavour change, although this may be how it appears, I just forget sometimes that people are not mind readers.

I’ve tried both flavours now, Nokomis and Powwow, and without commenting on flavour (I really don’t care), I can’t tolerate them. I get a dry feeling in my mouth and palpitations. Initially I put this down to anxiety maybe ... because I did get myself worked up over this. I’ve continued trying Manabush on and off in between unflavoured eliquid and a fruity blend. Only Manabush gave me palpitations, tried again this morning (Manabush only) and the same. Not scientific I know, and I can’t find any info online really to confirm flavourings do this (only nicotine) but I can say Bread of Heaven causes me palpitations too (vaped at an entirely different time). So I don’t really know where to turn or what to do, it’s not as simple as what flavour shall I try next or what do I like. I’m vaping fruit FFS ... now that, to me, is just plain weird. So I’m going to walk away and try and work out what the hell I do next

 

[Simon G]

But.......he did blag it to a certain extent....folks ordered their juice, expecting the same as normal...some seasoned manabush connoisseurs, have indeed commented, that they questioned their wicking methods or tanks etc...even vapers tongue as in the OP...then and only then, were most folks made aware of the situation of a reform of some of the range.

Sorry I know this is going to be unpopular reading for many...but surely Im not the only person to think, hang on a minute...perhaps if we were aware of a change, we could have been prepared for said change, for the better, or indifferent, either way..prepared.

Edit: I know how stressful all this must have been for the company, and ZT is a good egg, in time this will be fk all really in the grand scheme of things compared to real world problems.
I also expect some grief...well probably lots of grief really.....and this may be a post to bring in an unlike button

I don't know man, it's not really a blag.

A mate of mine owns a bakery in town, he's changed flour suppliers a few times and never said a word about it.

I don't think he's really under any obligation to say anything, if anything I'm surprised how open and honest ZT has been.

I would have said that we were reformulating them to make them better, launched them again as 'all new and improved' and proper blagged it.

 

[AJT]

I love Manabush

Unity, Equality, Loyalty

 

[eyeball kid]

I don't know man, it's not really a blag.

A mate of mine owns a bakery in town, he's changed flour suppliers a few times and never said a word about it.

I don't think he's really under any obligation to say anything, if anything I'm surprised how open and honest ZT has been.

I would have said that we were reformulating them to make them better, launched them again as 'all new and improved' and proper blagged it.

Yep, the first high vg (it was a whopping 55%vg when I found it) sub ohm juice I liked (told you I was fussy) was 13 sins jack from cuts ice and I reckon they must have reformulated that half a dozen times over the year's as the profile has slowly changed and the vg has crept up to 70% now. They've never said a word.
Happens with juice all the time. Cheaper vg/pg and nic ect.

I'm still pissed off coca cola removed the cocaine. Lol.

 

[ZT]

But.......he did blag it to a certain extent....folks ordered their juice, expecting the same as normal...some seasoned manabush connoisseurs, have indeed commented, that they questioned their wicking methods or tanks etc...even vapers tongue as in the OP...then and only then, were most folks made aware of the situation of a reform of some of the range.

Sorry I know this is going to be unpopular reading for many...but surely Im not the only person to think, hang on a minute...perhaps if we were aware of a change, we could have been prepared for said change, for the better, or indifferent, either way..prepared.

Edit: I know how stressful all this must have been for the company, and ZT is a good egg, in time this will be fk all really in the grand scheme of things compared to real world problems.
I also expect some grief...well probably lots of grief really.....and this may be a post to bring in an unlike button

Damned if we do damned if we don't on this one.

Ideally we would have some forwarning and been able to make incremental changes over a period of time ( a VERY common practise in the food, drink, vaping industry) and over time you do not notice those changes and you certainly do not get told about them - you have a start point and end point and smoothly transition in between. no mention its made when companies do this.

Not a route that was open to us unfortunately. We had enough stock for roughly 2 months .. we stretched it to three and had to reformulate a range that has taken us five years to build in that time.

Also .. due to obligations to wholesalers etc .. this has not been a "Old stock stops here, new stock starts now" so there has been no cutoff point to be able to say .. this is all new reformulation, its been woven in over an amount of time.

I could have sold down old stock and then said as Simon suggested "NEW FORMULATION - BEST EVA!" but to me that seems dishonest and disingenuous (although it IS now easier on the coils) - we didn't want to change it anyway so blagging it as better didn't sit well with me, and saying "New formulation ... you may find it tastes a bit different you may not! opinion is varied Soz!" doesn't seem to be a great idea. So we made the decision to deal with each individual customer on a personal level if they have had any issues. which we have been doing - its pretty exhausting - but there have not been as many as you might think. We have been offering replacements or part in a reformulation testing process on Chiricahua, or refunds depending how they feel about it. We (as in I) have always had a very hands on approach with our customers - we have customers that stretch not just to the day we opened officially - but to back when I was a home mixer messing around at home. I have remained throughout all this in constant contact with pretty much all our customers - this has got more difficult as we have got bigger, but something I still tend to do, some of these customers have been around so long they have become friends.

Also there is priming - if you tell someone something tastes a certain way .. an amount (not all of people) will instantly notice a difference (in practise sometimes even if there is not one) and no one likes change.

We have gone what we believe is the best route for us and the buyer - as we will leave non of them out in the cold.

one thing is for sure - no matter which way we had dealt with it - it would not have been the right way for some and the would have been the right way for others.

it is what it is.

 

[Crewella]

But.......he did blag it to a certain extent....folks ordered their juice, expecting the same as normal...some seasoned manabush connoisseurs, have indeed commented, that they questioned their wicking methods or tanks etc...even vapers tongue as in the OP...then and only then, were most folks made aware of the situation of a reform of some of the range.

Sorry I know this is going to be unpopular reading for many...but surely Im not the only person to think, hang on a minute...perhaps if we were aware of a change, we could have been prepared for said change, for the better, or indifferent, either way..prepared.

Edit: I know how stressful all this must have been for the company, and ZT is a good egg, in time this will be fk all really in the grand scheme of things compared to real world problems.
I also expect some grief...well probably lots of grief really.....and this may be a post to bring in an unlike button

I actually think it's good to get this point of view on here - especially 'on here' where we are essentially supportive, as a group, and where @ZT, and others, can take the time to explain and be listened to. It's a view that's bound to occur to some people, and IMHO there's nothing wrong with discussing it, and better here than on Facefuck somewhere .......

It's ZT's own fault that he set the original bar so high, it's my guess that it may take him a little longer to find perfection twice across the board ..........

 

[Rickster]

I actually think it's good to get this point of view on here - especially 'on here' where we are essentially supportive, as a group, and where @ZT, and others, can take the time to explain and be listened to. It's a view that's bound to occur to some people, and IMHO there's nothing wrong with discussing it, and better here than on Facefuck somewhere .......

It's ZT's own fault that he set the original bar so high, it's my guess that it may take him a little longer to find perfection twice across the board ..........

I agree, that's why I commented, the blagged bit was just a requote....manabush is such an individual flavour beast...that a "New best ever Daz to make your whites whiter than white" reform, would have been difficult to pull off as well.
So as the man say's damned if he does and damned if he don't.

 

[Rob]

It is also "interesting" to me that whilst there has been healthy debate on POTV, unless I am going even more blind, very little has appeared about all of this on the various farcebook Groups that I follow. I don't "do" twitter or instagram and their ilk so of course, they may prove me wrong, but knowing the types of individuals who primarily post in the groups............. Very quiet, or so it seems. Long may that be the case.