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OFFICIAL ITV Rise of The E-Cig discussion

And you know that because?

I have offered my opinion and have tried to explain my reasons, your answer was "you are wrong", I asked how you know I was wrong?

Even though you still haven't answered I am now beyond caring !!!!

 
I agree with quite a lot of what you're saying. I think the oil segment was badly put together and there should have been some rebuttal from an e-liquid manufacturer, or ECITA (who do most of the e-liquid tests) to point out that e-liquid is not made from oil. Also the doctors quote "what his doctor referred to as 'oil blended with concentrated nicotine' " is just demonstrably wildly inacurrate.

I don't think that it was so badly done as to be a violation of the OFCOM impartiality rules, but if a complaint has been filed then OFCOM will have to rule on it.


It gets a bit complicated as some e-liquids do contain oil. Pluid certainly does (aniseed oil) and lots of flavours that use a natural extraction of something that will contain very small amounts of essential oils. Any liquid that does contain essential oils, the oil is a very small portion of it.

There are also cases of Lipoid Pneumonia in the medical literature that I've read caused by essential oils. Here is one case where a person used Primrose Oil and developed Lipoid Pneumonia after a decade of use.

How much essential oil is too much? We don't know. In the trace amounts found in some small % of e-liquids it's probably harmless.


Thank you, this pretty much sums it up, inhalation of even trace amounts of oils will be accumulative, is it not wise to say 0% oil should be present being as lungs don't have the ability to break down or transport accumulated oil away?
I'm sure a large amount could be coughed up but not an effective method for complete removal, getting the facts on this is a win win, we protect our health and take the lead as far as research and facts to counter the guessing and misinformation being used against vaping.

How much essential oil is too much? We don't know. In the trace amounts found in some small % of e-liquids it's probably harmless.

Starts with an important question (How much?) States a fact (we don't know) Confirms oil is present in some liquids and ends with a potentially dangerous assumption.
I just think we need to know for sure being as our health depends on it, some may decide to vape on regardless and see what happens but I think most would want to go forward with something more than a guess, belief or assumption.
 
How much essential oil is too much? We don't know. In the trace amounts found in some small % of e-liquids it's probably harmless.

Starts with an important question (How much?) States a fact (we don't know) Confirms oil is present in some liquids and ends with a potentially dangerous assumption.
I just think we need to know for sure being as our health depends on it, some may decide to vape on regardless and see what happens but I think most would want to go forward with something more than a guess, belief or assumption.

People use essential oils for aromatherapy all the time, they are inhaling some amount of oil. You inhale oil everytime you eat fried food. Your body deals with this and Lipoid Pneumonia is presently really rare. So our bodies can deal with some small amount of oil inhalation.

to break down how much oil is in some of the flavours. Lets say we have a natural strawberry flavouring. Lets say that approximately 2% of that flavouring is oil based.

Now lets assume that the finished e-liquid contains 15% flavouring, and of that 15% half of it is the natural strawberry flavouring.

7.5% of the e-liquid contains 2% oil. Which means 0.15% of the e-liquid is oil.

Not all of that oil is going to get turned into vapour, as Dr Farasalinos notes above the temperatures are too low. Now we are down to really tiny trace amounts in the vapour, some of which is going to get absorbed by the mucous membranes in your respiratory tract and not get as far as your lungs anyway.


If you take your average tobacco cigarette some of the additives used in those are oils. Some of those oils are turned to vapour in the same way that some of the natural oils present in some e-liquids are turned into vapour. (somewhere between the cold end in your mouth and the hot end that's on fire, the temperature is high enough to vapourise oil without burning it) Most of the oils in tobacco cigarettes though are turned into smoke. Smokers generally aren't known for contracting Lipid Pneumonia.

This is what I am basing my assumption that some very small amount of oil present in e-liquids is probably harmless.

If you are worried about your health, the safest thing to vape is unflavoured e-liquid. We understand the science behind PG VG and nicotine, flavours and colours are a complete unknown. Noone will know how safe they are in the long term for at least another 5 years, more likely another decade, but what we do know states that they are 'probably safe'

If you want to avoid oils in liqids entirely then don't vape any that have natural flavourings in them. Most of them likely have trace amounts of oils in them.
 
...And they didn't transgress the codes of practise because it was balanced with a voice-over and a pop-up box.

@Saxe, I welcomed you back to posting on the forum and I said I looked forward to your pictures popping up again.

As I also said: either put me on ignore or just get over yourself if you can't communicate like an adult.
 
This is exactly why I make my own e-liquids. There are only a handful of other people I trust to mix fr me and I personally feel I am putting a lot of trust into them by vaping the stuff they've made me.

I have said for ages the only real regulation Ecigs need is Health n Safety on the e-liquids, a restriction on age and thats about it.
 
Great post thank you, I'm not sure if my intentions here are coming across.
Vaping is under attack, we are at risk of those in powerful positions scaremongering or bullshitting their way to victory.

This is what I am basing my assumption that some very small amount of oil present in e-liquids is probably harmless.

There is usually some element of truth in even the most obvious lie so my point here is to suggest we get some facts that are scientifically supported so people can make informed decisions and try and show that assume, might, possibly and probably are not the way to go.
We need to quantify what is safe in some way before there is a proven negative health effect caused through a basic lack of scientific knowledge regarding oil content.
The amount of oil being used is unknown, the type of oil is unknown, the accumulative effects are unknown.

Dr Farasalinos notes above the temperatures are too low
Lipoid Pneumonia was much more of a problem a few decades ago and was largely suffered by machinists and metal workers due to oil particles in the air, it is not as common as it was but cases reported more recently have been caused by products and actions no one would presume as dangerous. Baby Oil.
Yes I know we don't vape baby oil, my point is we would all assume it was safe to use on a sore nose.

I think we should do something to quantify the potential risks and create a safe list, long term who knows even the pharma industries doesn't get that right.
If we are seen to be acting on faith or belief or just don't give a damn then that plays into the regulators hands and they will make the case we need saving from ourselves like the irresponsible children we are...
 
I'd like to point out the temps needed to boil oil

Safflower - 510 F (266 C)
Soybean - 495 F (257 C)
Corn - 475 F (246 C)
Peanut - 440 F (227 C)
Sesame - 420 F (216 C)
Olive - 375 F (191 C)

And the temperature of various plants used in herbal vapers to reach "vapourization points" http://www.vapefiend.co.uk/Vaporizing-A-Guide


I will also point out that vapourization happens in PG and VG in between about 55 and 75 degrees Fahrenheit.

Simply fact of physics is that our coils, simply wouldnt get hot enough unless you were seriously sub ohming it and racking power from the mains through it, to even warm the oil let alone vapourize it.


Even IF there were oils in the flavours we use (which Farsalinos points out is not really probable anyways) we wouldn't be aspirating it like we do the VG and PG. You'd seriously have to be inhaling that shit every day all day long for a really long time...

What was the name of the man who passed away again?
 
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