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Working with Titanium wire.

Discussion in 'Temperature Controlled Vaping' started by Tubbyengineer, Aug 30, 2015.

  1. Tubbyengineer

    Tubbyengineer Legend

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    Ok so I've decided to start a thread for all those working with Titanium wire.

    I received a reel of Grade 1 Titanium from @stealthvape, and I'm sharing my early experiences and a bit of research I've done hopefully others will share too....

    First off Dry burning: In the traditional sense this is a definite no no, Titanium can burn quite ferociously and it's not easy to put out, in fact only specialist Powder extinguishers will douse the flames. You can however do a controlled "Dry burn" by turning the mods temperature up to it's maximum and firing.
    Titanium readily reacts with oxygen at 1,200 °C (2,190 °F) in air, and at 610 °C (1,130 °F) in pure oxygen, forming titanium dioxide. Providing you keep below the 1000 celsius level there is no danger of forming TiO2.

    For those of you not familiar with what temperatures are indicated by the glow visible from a coil heres a chart that indicates it quite handily...

    Example_incandescence_colors_(temperature_range_550_-_1300_C).svg.jpg

    You can see from this that the more shall we say insane among you may be able to control the temperature manually by firing until the appropriate glow is seen but I would heartily advise against it as the risk is pretty large and at the max temperature of most mods dirt will burn off the coil anyway.

    Titanium Dioxide: Theres been a lot of talk about how dangerous Titanium dioxide is so here's a quote from good old Wikipedia:

    Titanium dioxide dust, when inhaled, has been classified by the International Agency for Research on Cancer (IARC) as an IARC Group 2B carcinogen, meaning it is possibly carcinogenic to humans. The findings of the IARC are based on the discovery that high concentrations of pigment-grade (powdered) and ultrafine titanium dioxide dust caused respiratory tract cancer in rats exposed by inhalation and intratracheal instillation. The series of biological events or steps that produce the rat lung cancers (e.g. particle deposition, impaired lung clearance, cell injury, fibrosis, mutations and ultimately cancer) have also been seen in people working in dusty environments. Therefore, the observations of cancer in animals were considered, by IARC, as relevant to people doing jobs with exposures to titanium dioxide dust. For example, titanium dioxide production workers may be exposed to high dust concentrations during packing, milling, site cleaning and maintenance, if there are insufficient dust control measures in place. However, the human studies conducted so far do not suggest an association between occupational exposure to titanium dioxide and an increased risk for cancer. The safety of the use of nano-particle sized titanium dioxide, which can penetrate the body and reach internal organs, has been criticized.[59] Studies have also found that titanium dioxide nanoparticles cause inflammatory response and genetic damage in mice. The mechanism by which TiO2 may cause cancer is unclear. Molecular research suggests that cell cytotoxicity due to TiO2 results from the interaction between TiO2 nanoparticles and the lysosomal compartment, independently of the known apoptotic signalling pathways.

    NIOSH recommends that fine TiO2 particles be set at an exposure limit of 2.4 mg/m3, while ultrafine TiO2 be set at an exposure limit of 0.3 mg/m3, as time-weighted average concentrations up to 10 hours a day for a 40-hour work week. These recommendations reflect the findings in the research literature that show smaller titanium dioxide particles are more likely to pose carcinogenic risk than the larger titanium dioxide particles.

    Actually building a coil from Titanium is pretty simple, it is very springy and pretty tough so a good pair of cutters are essential, once you've formed your coil it will need some squeezing to form a decent microcoil but thats easily done with tweezers if you fire the coil at Max temp first then squeeze (Or use ceramic ones while squeezing). Once you got your coil formed Titaniums toughnes will mean it stands up to pretty much any kind of handling that a Kanthal coil will take without the slightest problem, in fact if you are fitting a coil in something like a heron then you are probably going to have to go back in and tension the coil back up to the right size after a few hours, as the coil will tend to expand back out to a larger diameter.

    I've found on the SX Mini M class with the 2.23 Firmware that I have to run it up at about 430f as opposed to the 370f or 380f that I used with Nickel coils.

    Flavour wise I'm not noticing a great difference and The wick isn't gunking up any more or less than with Nickel...
     
    #1 Tubbyengineer, Aug 30, 2015
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2015
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  2. dw1986

    dw1986 Achiever

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    This has gotta be a sticky...
     
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  3. joe clay

    joe clay Veteran

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    Tubbyengineer
    Many thanks for taking the time and effort in producing us with this vital information... Top marks to you bud.... Now go get your gold star
     
  4. joe clay

    joe clay Veteran

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    Totally agree 100%
     
  5. levellers

    levellers Postman

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    I bounce between ti wire and ni. I do find I have to up the temp with ti to get the same vape about the 230 c mark for ti wire. Normally I'm at the 200 mark for NI wire. Seems to last about the same for gunkyness and not much difference in flavour.
     
  6. joe clay

    joe clay Veteran

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    At the moment i cannot comment on TI wire as not tried it yet, but hope to order some soon
     
  7. Tubbyengineer

    Tubbyengineer Legend

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    OK So heres the relevant extract from the IARC paper that lead to the Classification of TiO2 It's a direct copy of the Evaluation at the end of this PDF


    6.1 Cancer in humans​
    There is inadequate evidence in humans for the carcinogenicity of titanium dioxide.

    6.2 Cancer in experimental animals​
    There is sufficient evidence in experimental animals for the carcinogenicity of titanium dioxide.

    6.3 Overall evaluation ​
    Titanium dioxide is possibly carcinogenic to humans (Group 2B).

    6.4 Rationale​
    In making this evaluation the Working Group considered the human and animal​
    evidence as well as the evidence regarding potential mechanisms through which titanium​
    dioxide might cause cancer in humans.​
    The Working Group found little evidence of an increased risk for cancer among​
    humans based on epidemiological data, although relatively few studies were available.​
    The single most informative study was a multicountry study of titanium dioxide​
    production workers that found a slightly increased risk for lung cancer compared with the​
    general population and a suggestive dose–response, but no overall excess risk for kidney​
    cancer. The two other cohort studies reported no increased risks and evidence from the​
    case–control study did not indicate an increased risk for either lung or kidney cancer.​
    Overall, these results led the Working Group to conclude that there was inadequate​
    evidence from epidemiological studies to assess whether titanium dioxide causes cancer​
    in humans.​
    In two studies of rats that inhaled titanium dioxide, one observed an excess incidence​
    of lung tumours in both sexes and another in females only. Studies of rats exposed​
    intratracheally found increases in the incidence of lung tumours. No increases were​
    observed among mice and hamsters exposed intratracheally. Other studies that used​
    different routes of administration did not observe excesses in tumour incidence. On the​
    basis of the results of an increased incidence of lung tumours in rats, the Working Group ​
    276 IARC MONOGRAPHS VOLUME 93​
    concluded that there was sufficient evidence that titanium dioxide is carcinogenic in​
    experimental animals.​
    The Working Group considered the body of evidence regarding the pathways and​
    mechanisms by which titanium dioxide or other poorly soluble particles may cause​
    cancer. Following the same line of reasoning as that for the other particles reviewed in​
    this volume, the Working Group considered that the available mechanistic evidence for​
    titanium dioxide was not strong enough to warrant a classification other than Group 2B. ​
     
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  8. Tubbyengineer

    Tubbyengineer Legend

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    OK so I've been experimenting a bit more with the Titanium Grade 1 I got from stealthvape. I can now say with some certainty that you can - very carefully dry burn titanium. Providing you dont get it further than the dull red glow it will be fine (About 7w on the SX Mini M class). If you get it to the more yellow end of the chart shown in the post above then when it cools you will find a distinct whitish grey coating on the coil, I changed mine out when it did that - better to err on the side of caution. I can also say after some experimentation that Microcoils don't give great results - however I'm now trying a spaced coil which does seem to be a lot better, the jury is still out though, I'll need to vape it for a few days to be sure it stays stable and holds it's temperature characteristics.

    Microcoils tend to vape cool at first and warm up as you vape more frequently, however I was having to push the temperature to 440f and 30w, the spaced coil I'm running now is performing well initially at 380f and 20w. Time will tell...
     
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  9. stealthvape

    stealthvape Premium Vendor

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    It's one of those potentials. To be honest I don't think it's a great concern unless there's industrial exposure and I'd wager those rats were exposed to fairly substantial amounts.

    But it's for these reasons we suggest that Ti shouldn't be dry burned and strictly only used in TP devices.

    There is the potential for TP devices to drop out of TP mode. Also I found the pre heat needed to be dialled down a bit as Ti is pretty responsive.

    Reminds me that I've got to as you something I'll PM you now.

    NiFe alloy with a TCR of 0.0049 and resistivity of .21 is in production btw
     
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  10. rune

    rune Postman

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    Great post, lots of very useful information and thank you for taking the time to post it all.

    I've just started using Ti, found spaced coils work best for me, so I've not been dry burning them.
     

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