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Starting the TC journey.....

Discussion in 'Temperature Controlled Vaping' started by Rudi, May 10, 2018.

  1. Rudi

    Rudi Postman

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    So finally I got my NiFe30 wire and starting the journey. So far a little disappointed but something normal for the first 2 hours IMO.
    I am using the Boxer mod with a Dead Rabbit 24mm. After 2 failed attempts I managed to make 2 coils , 5 wraps , 3mm ID from 28g wire and I have 0.126ohm. I loaded Stealthvape profile and changed the temp to 247 C and 100W. I am getting a nice warm vape but flavour is low and also I have a strange taste compared with the taste from brochrome. Not sure if this is just because a different wire or is something wrong with my settings. Should I go higher/lower on temp/watts? Should I build at higher ohms?
    The best build for me by now is Brochrome dual coil ,3mmID , at 0.31ohms and 47W.
    20180510_181552.jpg
     
  2. Mr Numpty

    Mr Numpty Veteran

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    100 watts is way too high. Try 50 watts initially. It is best to aim for a minimum of 0.14 ohms with NiFe30 but you're not too far off. Still worth adding a wrap though. Although it's best not to dry fire NiFe30 (imo), a quick fire in TC mode at 315C will burn off any oil or skin cells on the wire and help with any funky taste they might have.
     
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  3. Rickster

    Rickster Achiever

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    Don't go expecting too much from TC....sure, once you dial in your settings and get a vape you like, your good.....but its not a huge revelation that will take you to vaping nirvana... an endless quest we do seek...its different.
    If you are used to 100 watts in power mode on a dripper....you may be disappointed
    I mess about with it from time to time, but in all honesty Im no sure, call me old fashioned power mode man:)
     
    #3 Rickster, May 10, 2018
    Last edited: May 10, 2018
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  4. Rudi

    Rudi Postman

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    I've started at 50W but I changed to 100 to see if any difference and also wanted to check at that temp how high and low will jump the wattage so I can get an idea of what should be the max wattage to use. Also I read a lot of post where people are keep saying they never change the wattage and even live the wattage at maximum and the TC will do the rest.....not sure if I misunderstood something or maybe the mod they have is not that powerful....still digging to find again that posts and double read just to make sure I am not missing something.....
    Maybe the fact that I dry burned the coils 3-4 times before wicking and then again 3-5 times after( like I do with the brochrome in power mode) affected the wire and that's why I have that "extra" taste?
    I will try tommorow to make new coils and no dry burn to see if any difference........it's a pain for me to work with this wire. I used brochrome for the last 2 months and most important I started to learn to build coils with this wire.....
    From what I learned by now I know that some taste/flavour difference is normal between wires no matter if they are TC or VW but I am disappointed by the lack of flavour on TC and the extra "flavour"......not giving up......yet......some hope still present....
     
  5. Mr Numpty

    Mr Numpty Veteran

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    Yeah don't dry burn NiFe30, that's not safe.
     
  6. nomorecigars4me

    nomorecigars4me New Member

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    OK, I'm a noob, but I found a process that seems to work for setting tcr for my SMOK Mag 225 kit (Prince tank). I started with a Penguin that broke in a few days. I had a few more cigars. Then I got a Vaporesso SWAG, and that only worked TC with the ceramics. The drag on this was too restrictive (nothing like a Padron '64), so I got my first big-boy mod - the Mag. Right away I missed the smooth, even performance and long coil life of the SWAG on TC. I burned several coils and dumped out a lot of juice.
    !!!!!! AdriaNocenzi !!!!!! gave me the knowledge I needed to figure it out by saying that the tcr should be higher for the metals that change resistance more, and less for the metals that change less. I got one of the simple, one air port, V12 Prince-M4 0.17 ohm coils (because I wanted them to heat fast - I don't know if that's right, but it seemed to make sense) and started at 200 degrees F, set watts at 30 and tcr to 110. I set the watts at 30 because I knew that was way higher than I like (loads of pops and snaps in wattage mode at 30). Tcr at 110 had no control at all. It was zipping right up to 30. When I looked at the meter, I saw that the resistance wasn't changing very much (stainless steel setting - 0.177 ohms at rest and going up to 0.190 ohms while firing), so I started heading down in tcr, making the mod more sensitive to smaller changes (thanks again Adria - I almost gave up before, because I didn't know which direction to go). I noticed it getting better and better (fewer pops and splatters). After going down to tcr 40 and getting no difference between 200F and 400F, I went back up to tcr 45. Now, at 200F, it performs about like the SWAG set at 350 F. It doesn't make much sense, 200F !== 350F, but it's working, and that's all I really care about. So, my head is spinning after 10ml of 3mg OctopusEJuice BanannaNutBread, but now my SMOK Mag 225 with Prince tank and V12 Prince M4 works in TC. No more burned juice, and plenty of vapor.
    EDIT! I copy-pasted the wrong name, and I'm sorry for any confusion. The tcr info I found very valuable was from !!!!!! Chubbyengineer !!!!!!
     
    #6 nomorecigars4me, Jun 20, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2018
  7. vapellie

    vapellie Achiever

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    Okaaaay.... Wow, nope, that's not how TC works.

    You are using a stainless steel coil, so at least it's not dangerous.

    The TCR of a wire isn't a variable, it's a property of the wire that relates to how the resistance of that specific wire fluctuates with heat. Like how different liquids have different boiling points, you can't change it. Stainless steel TCR should be around 90.

    I think 30w with a 0.17 ohm coil would be incredibly underpowered. To get any vape out of it you'd probably have to double to 60w or more and I am not a big cloud chucker!

    Also, stainless steel is a tricky wire to get to play nice with low ohm builds. I get a better result with builds of 0.3ohm and higher.

    I think 400-450 F is the usual ballpark that most people vape at.
     
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  8. nomorecigars4me

    nomorecigars4me New Member

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    If anyone is reading this with regard to the Smok Mag 225/Prince/M4 0.17, here are the settings that I have at this point: TC-SS, Watts-60, tcr-40, MasterTemp-220. With these settings, the MasterTemp control is over-responsive, a little goes a long way, MasterTemp 300F is a pretty big cloud and a little cotton burn. At MasterTemp240, if you start with a slow draw for the first half of the puff, and you switch to a fast draw for the last half, it is not quick enough to ramp up the energy. If you start with a fast puff and switch to a slow puff, it pops a little before ramping down. With this hardware setup (and it may be different with a different coil), the TC is a little sloppy, like a Corvette with with worn-out shocks.

    "Okaaaay.... Wow, nope, that's not how TC works."

    Hello vapellie! Actually, on one point I think we said exactly the same thing, but it seems you were more direct and clear. I enjoy the English language, but at times find it unwieldy.

    On the point of ohms and speed, what is your experience - set at the same wattage, does lower ohm or higher ohm get hot more quickly?

    What I seem to always be trying to do is get a vape that goes right up to just below burning and stays there regardless of drawing fast or slow or even alternating between fast and slow. The SWAG/estoc mega clearomizer /ceramic will do that. It goes right to temp nearly instantly, and it's very nimble and quick in adjusting the power to the coils during alternating fast or slow draw. In that respect it's about as close to perfect as one can expect, but it's just a little tight on the draw, even with the air intake full-open. As a small cloud, flavor chaser, the precise temp control makes it just about ideal. for a strawberry cheesecake I like, the strawberry is strongest at 320F, and the graham cracker crust is emphasized at 360F.

    Vapellie, thank you for the excellent tip regarding the Mag/V12 Prince/M4 0.17 ohm! I bumped it up to 60 watts and it's getting up to temp much faster (which makes sense, of course). I don't know why, but at tcr 90 it has no control at all, it just goes straight up to the top set wattage of 60 and stays there... So, I went back down, all the way to tcr 40, and that seems to be the best the Mag with that tank/coil can do. When the tank is cool, it overshoots the ramp-up - loud pops - before backing off, and it's also slow to notice a change in fast or slow draw. When the tank is already warm - chain-vape - it gets up to temp more quickly (in about 1.2 seconds, compared to about 0.2 seconds of the SWAG - which the SWAG does perfectly every time, cold or hot). Which one do I use the most? The Mag.

    I hope it's not too bold to make a suggestion, but I think that what the part of the community that is interested in TC needs is:
    1. general guidelines for picking the best mods and tanks/coils/ohms/metals for TC (which I think is here, but spread all over many posts)
    and
    2. a safe and reliable, step-by-step process for setting the watts and tcr.

    Since, as you pointed out, there can be danger in overheating some metals, maybe it would be best to set a reasonable TC wattage, then start at the lowest tcr and go up? I suspect that before long none of this will be an issue as mods become more sophisticated. Although it only seems to work TC with ceramic, the SWAG doesn't even have a tcr control.
     
  9. nwhornet

    nwhornet Achiever

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    Unfortunately the TC guru is no longer with us & my knowledge is somewhat limited but in my experience with TC either a DNA or Yihi based mod is the way to go. On either there is no need to set TCR as the installed profiles for TC wire are pretty much spot on. On both it's normal to set watts a bit higher than you would in power mode as the whole intent is to get the coil to temp as quick as possible and the board then controls power to maintain a smooth vape. A TC vape should be consistent throughout which in my experience DNA boards do extremely well. There are more variables than just watt & temp settings. Airflow, wicking, size of chamber/chimney all affect the final outcome.
     
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  10. nwhornet

    nwhornet Achiever

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    Also at 0.17ohm you'll struggle to get any semblance of TC on any mod, the resistance change is too small when heating up for the board to reliably control power. The only one that could get close would be a DNA C board used in Replay mode.
     
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