The clone question again I'm afraid.

[gazlynn]

But that implies that clone users aren't committed to vaping, does it not? It implies that people who buy originals do see themselves as being somehow better (more committed to vaping) than people who can only get clones. That's one reason why I didn't go to vapefest - it does seem too elitist or cliquey. My daily tank at the moment is an unbranded Coppervape Skyline and anyone "in the know" who sees it will instantly know it's a clone.



So we vaping muggles must avoid offending the elite with our clones, or fear having scorn poured upon us?

(I'm not talking about you here Gaz, but this is how the elitist vapers are perceived, rightly or wrongly.)

Ok I might not of worded that as well as I should of... sorry commited was the wrong word to use. I didn't want to open up a can of worms but there are quite a few vapers that despise clone use as they feel it inhibits creativity within the industry.

The passion they feel about clone use is strong and loud one in certain circles... take for instance the uks / sv facebook groups who had a tent next door to potv at VF... They have a no clone policy anyone mentioning a clone will be taken to task quickly and in certain instances kicked out of the group.

I didn't mean to say that they are more committed to vaping than you or I.

I hope this makes sense ( not sure myself lol )

cheers

Gaz

 

[Rob]

One uses what one can afford. As long as you're off the Stinkies, I for one, couldn't care less whether you are vaping away on some piece of exotica, or something from the China Sales. Life's far too short and precious to be concerned about this stuff.
Enjoy what you use, Enjoy what you're vaping and care not what others have to say about it all.

 

[Mutley1]

just my opinion, but since I got into squonking, ive purchased some clones from FT & the like, mainly through recommendation from fellow apes on here, like the hadaly & wasp to me they work fine & I cant justify the prices of some originals, ive got some genuine atties & no they was not much price wise ie my augvape & coil art dpro both was roughly £25.00, like others money is tight, even though I work 6 days a week most the time, if a clone works then great I could not give a flying fuck if it upset some elitest, which I did not see at this years vapefest,

 

[Mutley1]

One uses what one can afford. As long as you're off the Stinkies, I for one, couldn't care less whether you are vaping away on some piece of exotica, or something from the China Sales. Life's far too short and precious to be concerned about this stuff.
Enjoy what you use, Enjoy what you're vaping and care not what others have to say about it all.

you basicly said what I wanted to say, but did it better.

 

[SirLugg]

The clone debate always has, and always will, be rife @speedfreek67 - not so much within the confines of Potv as, well, we're a tolerant bunch. For the most part.

I totally get what @gazlynn was saying, but do see why you read it differently to how he inevitably meant it.

Using a clone atty/mech, for me, only becomes a problem when it's being passed off as genuine. Which is very easy to do as arguably they're made to similar standards by the same people. Arguably.

And @gazlynn is quite correct in his definition of SV/UKS- they have a zero tolerance of clones. That's fine, that's just their mantra. It doesn't make them snobbish or any less of a person.

But events like VF are not 'no clone zones'. I use clones too, I'm careful of who's I buy nowadays but I use them all the same. My clone/authentic atty ration is 60/40 in favour of the clones so there's a indication of how I feel about them.
At VF I had 4 complete setups. 2 with authentic atties, 2 with clones. Nobody in the Potv tent, or anywhere else in VF would've or did pass a judgment on that. That doesn't happen. Ever.

Save for the SV tent, which is their prerogative and again, is no slight against them at all. I know lots of them and they're nice people.

You will get some folk saying clone users are cheap wankers and others saying users of £100 atties are posh bastards with their noses in the air. The same applies to the old MTL/DTL argument that rears its ugly head from time to time- you'll have people in both camps championing their preferred methods.

But, you know what? It don't matter. As long as you're happy that's all good.

And if folk pick fault with that then it's their bad- not yours. [emoji4]

 

[gazlynn]

Nice to see you ommitted the wattage debate there @SirLugg

Great post buddy

cheers

Gaz

 

[SirLugg]

Nice to see you ommitted the wattage debate there @SirLugg

Great post buddy

cheers

Gaz

Yeah, well that's just a decimal point going somewhere that it's not needed innit? [emoji16][emoji23]

 

[Pilgrim Wire]

The ol' clone debate eh? Might as well chime in with some nonsense then [emoji23]. The whole "issue" seems to me to encompass several different areas in which it is up to one (?!) to decide wether it is a "good" thing or a "bad" thing. This already splits any debate into a dichotomy, with very little room for a grey mish mash , which is more like life as it is as I experience it anyway. Firstly, there is the "moral" question, usually framed around notions of intellectual copyright, plagiarism, and the ultimate moral term: theft. Is it ok to financially reward those who blatantly and flagrantly capitalise on the efforts, expertise and ingenuity of others to generate profit for themselves. Is it okay to take someone else's work and use it without permission? This is the heart of the moral question. Is it ok to directly take the produce of someone's labour and profit from it without any acknowledgement or recompense being made to the original labourer? This brings in a second element. Economics and politics. Politically, is it ok to support manufacturers whose commitment to the environment, employee welfare, local and international taxation policies etc can often be found to be perhaps questionable? Is it ok to support what may be considered by some to be somewhat exploitative working conditions? There may very well be awesome conditions in some factories, but how sure can we be? Economically, are we ok with the outsourcing of labour (as 528 have done) to where it is cheaper, perhaps lessening the economic viability of home-grown development and manufacture? This isn't just a clone thing, but given the volumes of product dealt with, the clone market is a huge chunk of the manufacturing infrastructure seen in places like Shenzhen. By sending our money abroad, how then does that impact the ability of companies to locally source and produce their products? How much are we stifling innovation by making the skills at home rare and expensive? The next dimension to the clone wars that springs to mind is one that focuses upon the individual. That is, why do we feel that we are somehow "entitled" to the latest, greatest products? Just because a modder has poured their meagre resources into an extremely costly initial run process, thus limiting numbers (I've not seen any evidence of deliberate low production practises as of yet), why does it follow that I, myself, am somehow entitled to possess that thing? I rather like Ferraris (actually I don't, but you get my drift) and I hear the new one is the smoothest fastest drive ever, and everybody is raving about it. Does it then follow that Ferrari have an obligation to mass produce that car and sell it to me at a price that I can afford, just because I want it? Would it be ok for me to buy a replica Ferrari that copies the millions of dollars worth of research and development Ferrari invested, at a fraction of the cost of an authentic? Just because I stamp my feet and scream "but I want one, it's not fair!"? I wouldn't be very comfortable with that, and would feel a bit of a dick driving it to be honest [emoji23]. Or put it another way. What about our very own @ZT? What if a fiver was too expensive to you for Powwow? Or that Manabush only had the resources to make a very small quantity of a new juice, available only to those supporting them on Facebook? Would it be ok for me to clone that juice and bang it out for 99p a bottle, replicating packaging and everything without so much as a "cheers for creating that recipe mate" to the Manabush R&D folk? Would that be alright to do? "Manabush Styled" Eliquid anyone? Sounds a bit shitty doesn't it? And it would be if I were to mix it[emoji23]! Anyway, them's a few points that sprang to mind. I'm not sure how much of a fuck I personally give about any of it. But I do know I'd feel a bit of a tit wearing my fake Rolex whilst driving my cloned Ferrari !

 

[Ment]

Getting back to the original post, I don't think the guy was necessarily a snob.

He probably just wanted to show off his vape knowledge, and bored with the stream of people looking for starter kits saw an opportunity to strike up a conversation with someone more knowledgeable.

I would certainly have taken the bait and would have spent the next half hour trying to convince him the Squeeze is a better mod than a Frankie.

 

[Blackhack]

I've actually enjoyed reading this thread...It's a breath of fresh air to listen to both sides of an argument without anyone losing their cool and getting their knickers in a twist.

There are always two sides to a debate about original and clones......My tuppence worth is that there is a market for both......I have some original kit along with some cloned kit.....And to be totally honest sometimes it's hard to tell which is which.

As to the original start of this post re: Are they clones ?? ......I think that the publication of the order sheet sorts that out.....The business side of me thinks that they have just gone in the huff as their product was getting sold at below the RRP.