Concentrates: clean vs dirty

[zouzounaki]

I was mixing up some flavours and got to thinking about how there seem to be two different types of concentrates.

The very clean ones, that are often clear (but not always), tend to be a bit stronger, often need to steep for some time before the flavour develops, and are not very harsh on the cotton. All the flavour art concentrates are in this category.

And the dirty ones. Often dark, a bit cloudy, look as though there might be tiny particles suspended in there, very harsh on the cotton (I have some on the go that turn it black in less than a day), need a steep, but often to mellow the flavour more than anything else, often harsh when just mixed.

These are general observations. There may be exceptions to the rules. I am fond of concentrates from both categories. Are there any flavour concentrate experts among us who can explain it?

 

[rtni]

I recently mixed 200ml of a fruit concentrate and they recommended a steep time of 10 days but I tried it then and it wasn't nice at all. Left it another week and it was better but still not to my liking. It sat in my cupboard for about three weeks and when I tried it , it really wasn't nice at all. The flavour was there but it really cut my throat and even though the liquid was clear it destroyed my coil in a day.

I think you're righ ref colours but some clear concentrates that contain cooling agents absolutely destroy my mesh coils. The company making the concentrates is key. Some really push to develop clean and flavourful juice while others just load their juices with sweeteners and enhancers.

Sory I haven't been much help. I've only ever mixed a few juices up. Thanks for the tip on flavourart. Any non-tobacco concentrates you'd recommend?

 

[Ment]

Although most concentrates are produced from chemicals, the formulation is based on the natural flavouring, so those that are very accurate will behave in the same way as the natural flavouring.

 

[zouzounaki]

I wonder if the “dirty” inserts tobacco concentrates I’ve been using might have NET in them? Some of them are absolutes, but some that aren’t described as “absolute” are just as bad on the cotton than the absolutes are, worse even.

@Ment aye I get that, but many of the flavours we (or I at least) are puffing aren’t flavour molecules that are based on flavours from nature (tobaccos, specifically), I don’t think. Or maybe they are? I don’t think they are, but I could be wrong.

 

[zouzounaki]

@rtni if you like fruit flavours, most of the FA ones I’ve tried (a couple of years ago now) were very good. I’m not big on fruit flavours these days but still use their fig concentrate a lot. It’s excellent. Their vanillas, creams and dessert flavours are mostly pretty good as well. The only one I’ve had that I thought was straight up bad was zepolla, but I think I’m one of the people who taste damp cardboard and yeast from any kind of dough related concentrate.

 

[Ment]

I wonder if the “dirty” inserts tobacco concentrates I’ve been using might have NET in them? Some of them are absolutes, but some that aren’t described as “absolute” are just as bad on the cotton than the absolutes are, worse even.

@Ment aye I get that, but many of the flavours we (or I at least) are puffing aren’t flavour molecules that are based on flavours from nature (tobaccos, specifically), I don’t think. Or maybe they are? I don’t think they are, but I could be wrong.

They're not natural in the way NET are, or vanilla pods steeped in PG.

It's like taking 2 hydrogen atoms and combining them with an oxygen atom - you've created water.

In the same way, biochemists can analyse strawberry extract and reproduce it chemically.

@rtni - as zouzou has said, you can't really go wrong with FA, even Zepolla, which I like.

 

[Ment]

@zouzounaki, did you enter the FA recipe competition? I won a runners up prize with my Lychee recipe, and coincidentally I chose a bottle of Fig as my prize.

 

[zouzounaki]

They're not natural in the way NET are, or vanilla pods steeped in PG.

It's like taking 2 hydrogen atoms and combining them with an oxygen atom - you've created water.

In the same way, biochemists can analyse strawberry extract and reproduce it chemically.

@rtni - as zouzou has said, you can't really go wrong with FA, even Zepolla, which I like.

Aye I get that this is how artificial flavours are made. I suppose what I’m wondering specifically is about whether some of the inawera concentrates I’m using (other than the ones that declare it, the absolutes) have some kind of natural extracts in them. Some are very dark, almost thick and opaque looking, and others look like they have particulate matter suspended in them, and they can blacken cotton almost immediately.

On the other hand others are definitely 100% artificial. Clear, or almost clear, don’t mess up the wicks nearly as badly. And the kind of flavour profiles are way different. More like some of the FA tobaccos. I would imagine recreating the flavour of tobacco artificially would be more difficult than say, a strawberry.

Good work on winning the fig concentrate, I didn’t know they were running a recipe competition. It’s great stuff. I’ve got a blend steeping at the minute with the fig, fresh cream and inawera sesame.

 

[Ment]

Aye I get that this is how artificial flavours are made. I suppose what I’m wondering specifically is about whether some of the inawera concentrates I’m using (other than the ones that declare it, the absolutes) have some kind of natural extracts in them. Some are very dark, almost thick and opaque looking, and others look like they have particulate matter suspended in them, and they can blacken cotton almost immediately.

On the other hand others are definitely 100% artificial. Clear, or almost clear, don’t mess up the wicks nearly as badly. And the kind of flavour profiles are way different. More like some of the FA tobaccos. I would imagine recreating the flavour of tobacco artificially would be more difficult than say, a strawberry.

Good work on winning the fig concentrate, I didn’t know they were running a recipe competition. It’s great stuff. I’ve got a blend steeping at the minute with the fig, fresh cream and inawera sesame.

Do you also find a lot of the INW flavours produce a musty smell in the vapour? Not while you're drawing, but in the air afterwards. The raspberry is particularly bad, but it could just be me.

That's an interesting combination, I'll give it a go.

 

[zouzounaki]

Do you also find a lot of the INW flavours produce a musty smell in the vapour? Not while you're drawing, but in the air afterwards. The raspberry is particularly bad, but it could just be me.

That's an interesting combination, I'll give it a go.

Some of them do, aye but I’ve only
noticed it with tobaccos that I think are supposed to have a musty smell. Not noticed it with their others. Is it the shisha raspeberry? Never tried them but it might be that they add something to give a smoky effect.

Aye it’s a good blend, I’ve been planning to do it again and add some biscuit or something else to it. I’m a big fan of the sesame, it’s good at small amounts in certain tobacco blends.