Why are mods so big....

[Tubbyengineer]

.....comparatively?

I mean, there seems to be so much wasted space compared to the size of the board/chip and the battery.

I'm looking at a svd2 which has as much space allocated for the board and buttons in the case as the battery, effectively doubling its height.

When do you think we'll see mods as small as this?
View attachment 46268

Probably never, It's a lovely pretty picture but it disregards the Physical characteristics of some items and overlooks some things too...
The 510 connector is never going to be that small and allow for the range of adjustment currently required for various attys, to have switches that low profile you'd have to have contact pad type switches similar to remote control buttons - fine in very low current applications but the stresses involved in a mod would burn them out far too quickly, not to mention the first juice spill would kill them, then there are all the associated items that are not shown in that picture, case thickness, battery mounting hardware, screen and board mounting hardware and last but not least - decent wiring. I'm sure someone will shrink a mod to that size - but battery life will be poor, it will be a fixed battery, flimsy case, cheap ass 510 and even worse circuitry and switches, Oh and if it goes over 40 or 50 watts it will probably overheat on a regular basis if you vape it hard at full power...

 

[schlinky]

Probably never, It's a lovely pretty picture but it disregards the Physical characteristics of some items and overlooks some things too...
The 510 connector is never going to be that small and allow for the range of adjustment currently required for various attys, to have switches that low profile you'd have to have contact pad type switches similar to remote control buttons - fine in very low current applications but the stresses involved in a mod would burn them out far too quickly, not to mention the first juice spill would kill them, then there are all the associated items that are not shown in that picture, case thickness, battery mounting hardware, screen and board mounting hardware and last but not least - decent wiring. I'm sure someone will shrink a mod to that size - but battery life will be poor, it will be a fixed battery, flimsy case, cheap ass 510 and even worse circuitry and switches, Oh and if it goes over 40 or 50 watts it will probably overheat on a regular basis if you vape it hard at full power...

Thanks for your thoughts and furthering the conversation. Ramblings incoming...

Mobile phones started off huge and look at them now.... anything is possible. Unfortunately it's simply a matter of development and investment. Given the global government's attempts to kill vaping and dissuade the general public from using these devices I don't know if we'll ever get to that scale of custom production and refinement of design.
That aside, it's definitely doable. For example who says the 510 is the definitive method of securing an atty? Maybe a bayonet fitting could do a better job in a smaller footprint. I'm sure there's room for improvement across the board.
I think it's great that these companies are developing new hardware for us to use but they're not the biggest or most experienced product designers and don't have the facilities and protoyping abilities of the big boys (samsung, apple, sony etc). I'd love to see their take on it.
Naturally the heart of any mod is the battery so that is always going to drive the design choices and there's no reason an 18650 mod couldn't be much bigger than the battery itself. It's a relatively simple device really compared a lot of equipment out there.

There's probably room for further reduction in space in that pic but you're right about the button mountings, I don't know what's out there and whether current through-flow affects button mechanism size.
I know the boards can get warm, I don't know if you've taken a phone apart but they have 'foam' heatsinks, if the case was made of aluminium and appropriately finned case you could bond the board directly to the metal case.

I'm sure a lot of tech (usb charging, oled screens, various boards and software) could be appropriated from mobile phones but unfortunately that's probably subject to copyright.

Vaping is still in its infancy really and I guess I'm just being a bit impatient. I thought if any one on this site would want to talk about it this would be the sub board would be the one to post in!

 

[Tubbyengineer]

Thanks for your thoughts and furthering the conversation. Ramblings incoming...

Mobile phones started off huge and look at them now.... anything is possible. Unfortunately it's simply a matter of development and investment. Given the global government's attempts to kill vaping and dissuade the general public from using these devices I don't know if we'll ever get to that scale of custom production and refinement of design.
That aside, it's definitely doable. For example who says the 510 is the definitive method of securing an atty? Maybe a bayonet fitting could do a better job in a smaller footprint. I'm sure there's room for improvement across the board.
I think it's great that these companies are developing new hardware for us to use but they're not the biggest or most experienced product designers and don't have the facilities and protoyping abilities of the big boys (samsung, apple, sony etc). I'd love to see their take on it.
Naturally the heart of any mod is the battery so that is always going to drive the design choices and there's no reason an 18650 mod couldn't be much bigger than the battery itself. It's a relatively simple device really compared a lot of equipment out there.

There's probably room for further reduction in space in that pic but you're right about the button mountings, I don't know what's out there and whether current through-flow affects button mechanism size.
I know the boards can get warm, I don't know if you've taken a phone apart but they have 'foam' heatsinks, if the case was made of aluminium and appropriately finned case you could bond the board directly to the metal case.

I'm sure a lot of tech (usb charging, oled screens, various boards and software) could be appropriated from mobile phones but unfortunately that's probably subject to copyright.

Vaping is still in its infancy really and I guess I'm just being a bit impatient. I thought if any one on this site would want to talk about it this would be the sub board would be the one to post in!

I probably should point out that the DNA30 and DNA40 are both about the size of that picture and the iStick mini is possibly a little smaller, trouble is the limits of the battery and as mentioned switches, Perhaps a bayonet style atty connection would be smaller but then you would need adapters or a whole new set of atty's

 

[Tubbyengineer]

In a theoretically perfect mod you would use a pouch type cell, this has the advantage of being as flat as it's possible to make a cell with minimal extra material, the board would be single sided with all SMD components heatsinked to the case wall and switches would be of minimal profile preferably high durability contact pad types or capacitive ones built into the screen, the most compact type of connection would be a horizontal slide tye connection which could be reduced to around 2mm of depth - however this would make them far more fragile than the rather robust 510 type...

Those considerations aside there is the simple matter of ergonomics to consider, lots of mods are now down to a size wher they fit easily in the hand, making them much smaller would begin to cause problems with handling and operation that outweigh the positive aspects of the smaller form factor - particularly for those of use with big hairy paws...

 

[schlinky]

I probably should point out that the DNA30 and DNA40 are both about the size of that picture and the iStick mini is possibly a little smaller, trouble is the limits of the battery and as mentioned switches, Perhaps a bayonet style atty connection would be smaller but then you would need adapters or a whole new set of atty's

Yep, that's why I did the board and screen that size Again, those could be smaller too lol.
I think phones are a good analogy so I'll stick with that. It's only relatively recently that all manufacturers have got on the same page about the charging port, things change so maybe we'll see an alternative to the 510 some day, like you say, I'm sure adapters could be used in the interim.

We may even see wireless charging so when you rest it on the desk it's automatically charging.

At the moment there's a trade off for the istick's size in battery life and I don't think the finish is great to be honest and I wish china would stop chrome plating everything!

 

[schlinky]

In a theoretically perfect mod you would use a pouch type cell, this has the advantage of being as flat as it's possible to make a cell with minimal extra material, the board would be single sided with all SMD components heatsinked to the case wall and switches would be of minimal profile preferably high durability contact pad types or capacitive ones built into the screen, the most compact type of connection would be a horizontal slide tye connection which could be reduced to around 2mm of depth - however this would make them far more fragile than the rather robust 510 type...

Those considerations aside there is the simple matter of ergonomics to consider, lots of mods are now down to a size wher they fit easily in the hand, making them much smaller would begin to cause problems with handling and operation that outweigh the positive aspects of the smaller form factor - particularly for those of use with big hairy paws...

Good post, with someone like samsung and their battery experience anything could be possible.

 

[mumra]

I have to say my cloupor minis pretty bloody small and it's all pretty tight in there. I want to fit a dna40 in mine but I'm scared it's gonna be too tight without some jiggery pokery

 

[Ment]

I don't see the need. As long as it's comfortable to hold, why does it need to be any smaller?

And in fact, the smaller ones are more difficult to operate, even with my small hands. The IPV2 is perfect, the iStick, while a lovely device, is too small.

It's just pandering to the stealth-vape mentality where people are still conscious of vaping in public.

 

[cloudcuckoo]

I don't see the need. As long as it's comfortable to hold, why does it need to be any smaller?

And in fact, the smaller ones are more difficult to operate, even with my small hands. The IPV2 is perfect, the iStick, while a lovely device, is too small.

It's just pandering to the stealth-vape mentality where people are still conscious of vaping in public.

its odd, i don't think they need to be any smaller, but i do look at some and think "thats too big?" - like many i watch plenty of youtube vids before i get my mods, if i can i have a look in the flesh - but i've been shocked both times how small they are in the hand. My worry is all youtubers may have tiny hands? Bless em.

Think the optimum size for me at least is if i can make a fist around it i'm happy, what boggles my noddle is tall atty's. Theres no neeeeeeeeed.

 

[schlinky]

I have to say my cloupor minis pretty bloody small and it's all pretty tight in there. I want to fit a dna40 in mine but I'm scared it's gonna be too tight without some jiggery pokery

A mini with a dna40 inside could be good

Heard some reliability issues about both though, when the dust clears I'll investigate further. Want to make sure my first temp mod is the right one